Gruber
HobbyMasters
M.L. Toys
KidsWheels
Gruber
HobbyMasters
M.L. Toys
KidsWheels
HobbyMasters M.L. Toys
Gruber
KidsWheels
Need new batteries? Going from 12V to 18V or 6V to 12V? Wiring Questions?
#39845
does anyone know where I can find a wiring diagram, that has a boost button to go from 6v to 12v. I have 2 6v batteries, a monetary switch and some connectors ready but just not sure how to hook it up. Do I need a relay? if so what kind. I need exact details :/

The Vehicle is a Power wheel F - 150 Flashback with only a throttle and a front and reverse switch.
I know its nothing spectacular to have a PW go from 6v to 12v but my kid is only 3 :)

Thanking you all in advance!

- newbie modder dad
Last edited by t dawg on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
#39846
UPDATE :

This what I have done so far :

Image

I really wanted a 6v then the NOS boost to 12v with the monetary switch but may have to settle for this plan unless else can show me how :/

My question is: will I damage the battery if I run the Vehicle at 6v until it almost drains, then switch it to 12v till both are depleted? Basically the batteries are draining unevenly and when put together will it be dangerous?

Thanks all!
#39869
CJB wrote:Use the momentary switch to close a relay. In the diagram below, the batteries can be any voltage you wish. The theory still applies.

Image


he wants 6 volt to 12 volt
#39874
AlexL wrote:


he wants 6 volt to 12 volt[/quote]




CJB wrote: the batteries can be any voltage you wish. The theory still applies.
#39878
wow i am really being oblivios today yipe :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: sorry guys :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
#39886
I just bought the relay and wired it exactly like the diagram but its not even running. Batteries are charged and I double checked the wiring...

I wonder if its because the relay is 12v ?... i am running from 6v to 12, after all. Do i need a minimum of 12v to use this relay?
#39899
It runs but only on full throttle 12v with the switch. When I tried connecting the 87a wire, there is a big spark and then I get no response from the throttle or switch. Any ideas?
Last edited by t dawg on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#39920
Original new pw batteries. I did double check the battery connections also. I didn't blow the fuse. It does work at full throttle and switch When I disconnect 87a. If you say the wiring diagram is correct, then I will re check again tomorrow. I'll try to give you a detailed pic of the project then. Thx! :)

Ps: my wife thinks I'm nuts playing with the kids toy lol
#39930
Do you have a meter? If so, place the negative probe on the ground leading to the factory connector, then check for voltage at each of the 5 pins of the relay.

With the momentary switch pressed you should have:
85----0v
86----12v
87----12v
87a---6v
30----12v

With momentary switch open you should have:
85----0v
86----0v
87----12v
87a---6v
30----6v

If connecting 87a gives you a spark, and the wire you are connecting has 6v on it, it makes me wonder if you have switched pin 30 around, as pin 87a has continuity to pin 30 when the coil is not energized.

Also be sure to check the relay for the pin labels, don't go by the layout you see in these diagrams.

Ya, my wife thinks I'm crazy as well. I'm on my 2nd 24v ESC build right now .... She asked me one time "So are these PowerWheels for the kids, or for you??" to which I replied "Can't they be for both of us??" LOL
#40099
Image

Image

I Double checked on the wiring and replaced the relay with another ( just to see if i had a faulty one )

when I used a tester, with the switch open...

85----0v --> ok
86----0v --> ok
87----12v --> tester showing 6v???
87a---6v --> ok
30----6v -- ok

When everything is connected on the relay, 87 shows only 6v?! :evil: With the relay wires disconnected, I tested the two batteries in series and its showing 12v ( batteries are new PW OEM ) .

I took out the 87a wire, the current for 87 on the relay does show 12v. The relay sounds like its clicking right when I press on the button.

I also posted the picture of the relay. Hoping that it might be a different configuration. Any clue to whats going on guys?
#40111
Something is not wired correctly. Check the ground wire which runs from the factory connector to the batteries and ensure it is not connected between the two, and is connected to the negative pole of the right battery (in the diagram)

Then check the wire which runs to 87a and ensure it it connected between the 2 batteries.
#40117
Stoopalini,

I double checked all the wires again. everything is where it should be. I think the only possible thing it could be is that we need a minimum of 12v to run the relay. 6v will not work. Like I tested, it does run 12v when the 87a wire is removed.
#40146
t dawg wrote:Stoopalini,

I double checked all the wires again. everything is where it should be. I think the only possible thing it could be is that we need a minimum of 12v to run the relay. 6v will not work. Like I tested, it does run 12v when the 87a wire is removed.
Stoopalini, drawing is showing 12v on pin 87 and 6v on 87a.

If the relay is wired correctly it is working on 12v. Pin 87 is the series 12v + lead. Removing or keeping 87a in place should not have any effect on the voltage reading there. It sound to me like you have your batteries wired in parallel not series.
#40150
12vwiz wrote:If the relay is wired correctly it is working on 12v. Pin 87 is the series 12v + lead. Removing or keeping 87a in place should not have any effect on the voltage reading there.


Yes it is working with 12v but the problem is 87a. When plugged in where it should be, 87 shows only 6v... I sure hope the video below explains whats going on. Let me know if you guys need a better video made?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRsIiV79-Eg

its not the greatest video but it does show i got it in series, right?

Please forgive the shotty wiring, I 'm trying to figure it out still. Promise I' ll clean it all up once we get it figured out :)
Last edited by t dawg on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
#40227
Your drawing is incorrect.
If its wired like your showing the battery on the left is a dead short when the momentary switch is pushed.
What is the momentary switch doing there anyways? The three way switch is now doing your voltage selecting.

After a closer look at the relay you posted... it looks like your using a specialty style. There is no 87a labeled on it anywhere. Its showing it has two 87 contacts. That is your problem.
That relay is a normally open at rest and when triggered both 87 pins are common to pin 30. Compare the drawing on the relay your using to the one below.
The one your using
Image

The correct One!
Image
Use the right style relay and it will work correctly as well as safely.
#40241
great :( really wish you showed me the picture of the relay earlier lol

I spoke to a millwright at my work and showed him the diagram. He says if it works for you its all good. LOL

Here is a short clip of the project :shock:

< Click on picture to see clip >

Image
Last edited by t dawg on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
#40266
t dawg wrote:Did it without the relay. Here is the final wiring diagram. :D
Image


I have some serious concerns about your setup here.

Let's just assume you really don't have a wire going from the Pos terminal of the battery on the right (in the diagram) to the other side of the momentary switch. As already stated, this causes a dead short across the battery in 12v mode, and when the momentary button is pressed you'd most likely have a fire on your hands (or a blown fuse/breaker)

1st thing I'd recommend is for you to add a breaker or fuse somewhere.

2nd concern, is all of the current to the motors is now running through the 3 way switch, the momentary button, and the factory pedal. You increased the voltage to 12v, creating higher current, and the little bush button on the steering wheel doesn't look like it is rated for this level of current.

best case scenario, the factory fuse in the battery pops. Worst case scenario, the momentary button (or wires leading to it) melt down and possibly catch on fire.
#40280
I agree with Stoop (as usual 8-) ) - A simple rule of thumb is that a 'passive' switch (as opposed to an 'active' switch, such as a Relay) derives it's Amperage rating from the physical strength of it's spring(s). IE: If the momentary button does not require as much effort to press as (for example) the foot switch, then it cannot have as high of an Amperage rating as the foot switch. :(
#40300
Got the momentary switch from the automotive section from Canadian Tire.

Image

fuse added ...

Image

In the end you guys are right ... I'll start from scratch and do it right... :roll:

Is this the right relay on ebay? --- > http://www.ebay.com/itm/RELAY-SPDT-12-V ... 43a7ceb9d0

If not, please point me out to the right one? Thanks guys, I appreciate it! :)
Last edited by t dawg on Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#40311
Just FYI: The circuits connecting to terminals 85 and 86 on the Relay can be very small gauge (thin) wire. So you could use something like an old telephone wire you have laying around, and it will also be easier to hide in your steering wheel. 8-)
Last edited by jparthum on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#40398
You guys were right!!...

I was using the wrong relay. Went to the store to get the right one and did my little day project while my kids were at school. I hope it is finally done :mrgreen:

Here are a couple of pics...

Image

Image

:geek: You guys are PW Gods! :ugeek:
#140617
t dawg wrote:My question is: will I damage the battery if I run the Vehicle at 6v until it almost drains, then switch it to 12v till both are depleted? Basically the batteries are draining unevenly and when put together will it be dangerous?


Related to this question..how could charging be done in vehicle. Disregarding harness setup to the outside of the vehicle. How would the wiring diagram look to charge both batteries? One charging port or 2? Not sure what else to ask.
#140618
I doubt it would be considered hijacking 5 years later.... what batteries are you going to use? Honestly I'm not going to read all that's above right now, but to use a 6 and a 12 will equal 18 volts, =FAST! heck, a super 6 on 12 volts has a good speed about it. If you double up 2 6 volts to go 6v & 12 volt, you'd be good. After the kids are used to 12 volt, make that the primary voltage, and use your 6 volt battery as the boost. To have 2 separate boost buttons would be confusing, and a mistake in wiring "could" allow 6 volt to 18 volt which would be like 35mph to 80mph in the blink of an eye equivalent when thinking of a kids neck.
#140620
Haha ya 18 would be crazy. Looking to go 6V with 12V optional. Basically a high/low. Still working on details and have been cruising the forum like crazy and have seen tons of different options but this setup seemed most similar.
Have a 6V Kid Trax. Threw in a 12V and going to switch it out for 2 6V batteries. Looking to have a rocker switch to change between 6V and 12V batteries. Assumed I could just replace the momentary switch with a rocker switch so that my kids could cruise in driveway with 6V and then when want to have fun could use 12V. Kid trax has no quick way to switch out batteries so wanted to rig up some kind of charging port with possibly using stock port as well. But I can figure out the charging port. Just wondering about the whole charging 2 batteries/in series/ not blow anything up issue. I can create a new thread if necessary. And sorry if there are posts out there. So far from what I have seen, there's nothing exactly like mine so I'm mishmashing like 50 threads to get my needs.
#140622
Could do a 3 way switch and 2 charge ports? I'm not familiar with the kids traxx, but say you put the 2 6V in, have a 6v/off (charge)/12v setting? And wire it for 2 separate chargers. As you'd mentioned, the batteries could be drained to different levels, therefore charging them at 6V parallel would still long term cause unwanted damage. And you could rig that switch similar to the forward/reverse switch. If you're the primary person to charge it, shouldn't be too much hassle. Can have 2 separate wires dangle as charging cords, or like the 7 wire self closing electric brake trailer adapter, there's a 4 or maybe it's a 5 pin??? Only issue with the trailer adapters is a kid could stick a coin or similar conductive thing in there and short it out. Highly unlikely, but possible. Wiring the charge port AFTER the fuses or having a simple 5 amp to the port is sufficient. Proper placement to keep it out of sight out of mind would be wise.
#147703
Hi All, new to the forum but I'm trying to use this same concept for my daughters Frozen 6v ATV. Can someone provide a final wiring diagram that worked? I see a few on this thread but wanted to be sure to use the right one.

I want to use two 6v batteries in series as well..

Thanks,
-Russ
#147706
CJB, sorry one more thing. The other diagrams show the positive from the stock harness going to slot 30, but the one you sent today has the negative going to 30? Just want to be sure I get the polarity correct.

Also, would I need two 30A fuses (1 on each battery) or another size?

Thanks again,
-Russ
#147710
The relays are not polarized. As long as you wire your circuit properly (see examples above) the relay is just a circuit path. As for the fuse, you only need one in the circuit. 30amp is good. If it blows you can safely bump it up to 40amp but go no higher.
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