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User avatar
By Mark
#29390
Hello everybody,

From a friend of mine I got an old Gaucho as a gift for my kids.
The Gaucho is still running, but the electrics are all modified.
Here is a picture of it :
Image
I'm thinking about taking it completely apart, cleaning it, painting it,
and then start building it up agian with new, partly modified parts.
I've seen some interesting project on the forum here, and already have some great idea's.
My kids are still to young, so I have plenty of time.

Could somebody point me in the right direction by telling what year or model this Gaucho is ?
I'm actually thinking it is pretty BIG, so is it a Gaucho Grande ?
Do all parts from the newest generation Gaucho's still fit on this old one ?
Any information would be grately apprechiated.
What are your thoughts about it ?
Following some more pics, so you can have a good look.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Kind regards Mark
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
By Mark
#29728
Today I started with this Project.
I took the gaucho completely apart.
Then I cleaned it with a high pressure water cleaner.
Image
Image
While cleaning it with high pressure, I noticed that a thin layer of plastic,
(that was completely faded and worn by the sun), came off.
Now the surface is very rough, but clean.
Not sure if I'm happy with this or not.

I was told this Gaucho used to be 6Volt. But it has been run overpowered with 12V for several years.
The motor and gearboxes look like new.
Image
The motor has the number : R6-775SF written on it.
Who nows if this is really 6V ?
What other versions of Gaucho motors and gearboxes fit in my Gaucho?
I might want some more power.

Thanks.
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
#29771
It's a factory 12v all Gaucho's are 12v . The 775 are really good motors newer Gaucho's are a little smaller 755 .
Your Gaucho model is an A151 the 1st of the Gaucho's made in early 90's almost all parts from newer models will fit , from my under standing one of the only parts that will not fit is the wheels newer models have larger wheels that don't fit under the back floor pan.

I few of us have learned the lesson not to power wash to close to faded plasic or it peals off that top layer :( & leaves the ruff finish so don't worry it tricks us all becuase at 1st glance it looks to be making it really clean :oops: untill you see the bad finish! The only fix I have found is lot's of sanding & maybe a little spray on putty if needed. If you have any more faded parts to clean you are better off using a heat gun on the plastic 1st .
Attachments
P25-06-11_10.58.JPG
Here's my Gaucho's I even sometimes let my kids borrow them [haha]
P25-06-11_10.58.JPG (89.05 KiB) Viewed 23319 times
User avatar
By Mark
#29798
Thanks Darren.

This helps a lot!
Some nice Gaucho's you've got there.

I read about the heat gun solution yesterday evening, just after my cleaning session :(
Now sanding is my only option, but we'll see.

Great to know it's 12 Volt. I'm thinking about a 18 Volt setup now,
using 3 pieces of 6 V battery's, and making it 3 speed.
Also adding some timers, to create some kind of soft start, from 6, through 12, to 18 Volts.
User avatar
By Deere Green
#29854
OK....sooooo....I believe I am seeing DOT Tires on a Raptor....is that a raptor with street tires on it in the one photo :o :shock: ???? If so, I NEED! I have been wishing for years they would legalize ATVs on the streets in my state but not yet :evil: :( :(
User avatar
By Mark
#29891
Hello Mr. Deere Green,

It's incredible how you can figure that out from that small amount of Raptop in the picture.
Applause!!!!
You must have been checking out my garage thoroughly. :lol:

Indeed that picture is from my 700 R Raptor, that is street legal, with street tires on it.
Also some other parts are installed, to make it handle ok for the street.
It's still a nightmare, and life-threatening to drive on tarmac.... (
Image

As you can see my kids wanted it, but that was a bad idea, and I got a Gaucho instead.
If you want any info, please let me know, and I'm happy to inform you.
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#32765
After doing my homework on this site for several weeks, and searching the internet,
I finally made up my decision. :D ( I think :? )

I'm going to use the following setup.
2 pcs. of 36V 500 W motors 18,7 A -> http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=106140
1 pcs. of 36V 1000 W controller 40 A -> http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101205
1 pcs. of metal throttle pedal with hall -> http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101124
2 pcs. of rear sprocket 80 tooth -> http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=103250

I want to hook each motor up to 1 rear wheel.
The ESC controls them both.
This setup with these sprockets should give me a top speed of approx. 20 km/h ( 12 Mph)
It should be able to climb hills etc. very well I think.
Off course remote kill switch is going to be involved, as is reverse.
I'm still looking for a great set of wheels.
Wheels and battery I need to purchase in Holland, because of shipping costs.

I asked TNC aswell another seller, if this setup would work.
I haven't had an answer from TNC yet, but the other seller said, it couldn't be done like this. :o
I find this very strange, and my electronics knowledge is telling me different.
Does anybody have any experience with this kind of setup ?
Only thing I can think of is the peak current, but with one 1000 W motor there is no difference.
With the sprockets I want to use, the motor doesn't have to deliver a lot of torque when accelerating.

Who knows if TNC also does shipments to holland ?

Any thoughts or information regarding this idea, is greately appreciated.
User avatar
By CJB
#32773
I see no reason you can't make it work like that.
However, running a controller on EACH MOTOR will give you a lot of performance. I believe Taz (maybe others here also) has run two controllers on a single throttle before.
User avatar
By Mark
#32782
Thanks.
Haven't thought of 2 controllers with 1 throttle..
Any info from the pro's is welcome ;)

Why would one controller for each motor give more performance ?
Don't the motors get as much power, as when using 2 pcs. of 500 W controllers ?

Either option would work for me, but I'm curious what the difference is.
User avatar
By Divinar
#32790
That's the same base I started from on the Grape Gaucho.

The guys at TNC scooter said I could combine the throttle wires to a single throttle as long as they were *identical* controllers - and yes, that will give you lots more power to the wheels - but you'll need two relays for each motor to put it in reverse.
You'll also need a third relay for electrobraking - but this one has REAL brakes, so you may skip that if you want.
User avatar
By Mark
#32877
Thanks Divinar.
Great info.
I assume you can also use 2 controllers with reverse for this ?
Then you can skip the relays.
Relays won't be a problem though.

Are there any other features from the controllers that have to be isolated between them ?
For example, the battery's ?
key switch, can it be combined for 2 controllers ?
And the brake input, and output ?

Or do I blow up both controllers, if these wires are connected to eachother ?
Thanks again.
User avatar
By Divinar
#32910
Again- I haven't *done* this. But I spoke to the guys at TNC, i was told:
Even the YK43B controller is only rated to 700 Watts at 24 volts. So I don't think it would be possible
to connect two 500 Watt 24 Volt motors to the controller. The YK43B controller has the following specs

24 to 36 volts - 700 Watts
48 to 60 volts - 1000 Watts

Your best bet would be to buy two of our LBD14 controller and wire them in parallel. except for the motor
connections. They would be connected to each of the 500 Watt / 24 Volt motors. Then you could use
a single throttle and a single key switch to control both controllers / motors.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Chris Rouse
TNC Scooters
So you can connect ALL the wires except the power output (blue and white) to the motors together.
(I was going to do it on a Dragon, but that fell through)
User avatar
By Mark
#35071
Thanks Divinar,
Your information helped a lot. This Forum is Great !
The last few weeks I did some research, and talked to TNC several times.
Finally i ordered a few parts this afternoon.
The following parts are coming to Holland :

2 101205 36V Controller (Model CT-660B9) $30.00 $60.00
1 101124 Metal Foot Pedal Throttle Cable (Hall Effect) $18.00 $18.00
1 101227 2 Wire Ignition Switch $5.00 $5.00
2 106155 750W Motor - 36 Volts with Mounting Bracket (Style: MY1020-B) $77.00 $154.00
2 103290 72 Tooth Sprocket for 8mm (T8F) Chain $10.00 $20.00
2 106008 10 Tooth Dual-D-bore Sprocket For 8mm (T8F) Chain $5.00 $10.00
6 105450 8mm (T8F) Chain Sold By The Foot $3.50 $21.00
2 105350 8mm (T8F) Master Link $1.50 $3.00
2 102306 6 Pin Modular Connector $0.50 $1.00
2 102310 Battery / Motor Connector (2 - Pin) $0.50 $1.00
4 102302 3 Pin Modular Connector $0.50 $2.00
4 102300 2 Pin Modular Connector $0.50 $2.00
Subtotal $297.00

This means I choose for the 2 ESC. Connected parallel, but with seperate motor outputs.
Also 1 ignition switch and 1 metal hall throttle pedal.
TNC told me the CT-660B9 ESC are much more reliable then the other models.
Because this ESC has 1000W max. I also upgraded to two 750 W motors. :D

With all this equipment, I need better wheels then plastic.
After doing some research, I found the "Carlisle Turf Saver 13x6.50-6".
These are 34 cm. high, and 16 cm. width, so approx. the same size as the original tires.
Image

Has anybody got some advise about the wheels ?
With this size, the top speed would be around 20 km/h.
Would bigger wheels look better ?
THis would also mean a higher top speed.
"Slower" sprockets are not available.
How about steering ?
I'm a littlebit in doubt.

Thanks for all your idea's and replies.
Please let me know you thoughts.
#35080
Mark, I really like your project. I am also running a scooter motor to power a peg jeep. A few questions though if you don't mind,
1. are you using a straight axle to mount the wheels, if so does it rotate on bearings or will the axle be fixed and the wheels rotate on bearings?
2. I ran the math and I came up with 15mph (24.1kph) which is extremely fast :D , are you reworking the front end for more stable steering?
3. are you still leaning towardselectric braking or perhaps adding a disk brake setup?
4. bigger is always better but 2 750w motors will comsume alot of battery quickly have you got room for 3-12v of considerable ah?
I'm running similar tires, carlisle 16-6.5 8s and I love them. quiet, great traction and softer ride.

I can't wait to see this thing come together
Last edited by bricklayer99 on Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#35192
Hi Bricklayer,

First of all, let me say, that everything is based on idea's. I don't have experience with PW yet !

1. Yes I'm thinking about using a straight axle. The wheels rotate on bearings. Axle diametre will be 25 mm.
The axle will be fixed.
The rims for the wheels are 2 halfs, bolted together. With a distance plate connected to 1 side, I will mount the sprocket.

2. Yes It will be very fast. It needs some limiters though. I want to try a second hall sensor in series with the pedal throttle. Or maybe a potentiometer. This way I should be able to limit the power. ( until the kids know how to drive)
I want to create a metal frame under the Gaucho. From here the rear linkage is connected. The frame stretches to the front axle. I want to make new hubs, with a spring construction in them, for some suspension.
Also I want to lengthen the wheelbase a little, and also make the axles a little wider.
This should give me more stability.

3. because I use a fixed axle, a disc brake is difficult. It would mean I have to add discs on the wheels,
next to the sprockets.
The leverage from the wheel to the disc will be much and strong, so I'm not happy with that.
I've seen how electric brakes work, and they should be fine. My Gaucho has a second pedal for braking. The switch underneath will trigger a relais. (or more) This relais system should disconnect the ESC's output, and also shortcut the motors, eventually through a big resistor.
I also have a professional remote kil switch from my work, that will be connected parallel to the brake pedal switch.
If I hit the remote, the Gaucho will hit the brakes.

4.I measured the space under the hood. Its 20 x 21 cm. and reasenably high.(also about 20 cm.)
At work we use 12 V battery's, that are LxWxH = 18x7,5x18 cm.
3 of these fit under the hood. They are 18Ah. each.
I use 36 VDC to bring the current down. But I have no clue how much amps the ESC's are pulling on average.
I know the peak is high, but hope the average is lower. Also with the limiters in the beginning, I hope the current is acceptable. If anybody has any information regarding average use, and running time, that would be great !!
Off course I can always try to fit another 3 of these battery's under the seat, or hook up a battery trailer. :D

The tires you are using are pretty big. Do you have a topic about your project ? pics would be great.
How is the steering ? Do-able for a kid ?
I would love to have more details about your project.
#35222
You have a good plan. Disk brakes could be added to the front wheels.18 ah will last quite a while. I run 12 ah @ 36v and there is a good forty minutes of ride time. You could physically limit the pedal travel to limit output to begin with.
Take lots of pics, I wanna see this one get finished.
User avatar
By Mark
#35227
Just had a weird Idea.
Made a drawing and wanted to share it.

Image

What if I would use 1 motor for the front, and 1 for the rear axle. :o
Make both axles solid, connected to the wheels. Sprocket somewhere in the centre of the axle.
Then make the axle rotate in the centre.
Connect the right front, to the left rear.
Somehow connect the steering to this.
It would be 4x4 with 2 scooter motors and ESC's. :shock:
But would it be possible to steer it ? (without being the hulk :D )
And would it de possible to fit under the gaucho body, and able to steer far enough, to make small enough circles ?

I'm very interested in your thoughts on this.
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#37770
Hello Folks,

I'm back from holiday :( , but at least it's Gaucho time again. :lol:
Today I went to the toy shop and purchased some great wheels.
Image :shock:
Tire size is 13x6.50-6. Rim is 6 x 4.5 and steel.
Double bearings with a 25 mm. axle diametre.
Nice centre cap to close the axle end.
The tires are as high as the A151 wheels, only a little less wide.
Image
Image

Also I made some progress on the Gaucho.
I cut up the front suspension for a new setup with springs.
Image
Also I cut the mesh from the windshield, and spraypainted the windshield, front, and rear bumper with a heatgun. :D
It looks much better now.
Later I will add a macrolon plate inside the windshield.
Image

I heard my package from TLC has arrived at work.
Can't wait to go back to work on monday, to receive my motors, ESC's etc. :(
I'll post picures as soon as I have them.
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By taz11
#37778
Man.....How did I miss this one? :shock: :? Slippin'

About the 2 controllers. I was told by TNC Scooters to connect everything in parallel. The motors will be separate and the charging port only needs to be hooked up to one. There is a thread about it somewhere.....I'll try to find it.


Mine is not done yet but I bench tested it the other night and it appears to work.



Divinar.......Not rubbing in your bad fortune but..... Your Dragon deal that fell through, That's THE truck in my project thread.
User avatar
By Divinar
#37781
taz11 wrote:Divinar.......Not rubbing in your bad fortune but..... Your Dragon deal that fell through, That's THE truck in my project thread.
Yes, I know. :cry:
I recognized it.
User avatar
By Mark
#37888
hungngo wrote:hey mark nice build so far,

question is where did you get the tires.... they don't look like the Carlisle Turf Saver 13x6.50-6 ( lowe's sell these i think ).
I got the tires from http://www.tentyres.nl
This is a reseller just 15 minutes from my house, and appeared a friend of my dad.
Found him by accident.
Problem for most of you is, He is in Holland!
The brand is Kings tyre. Sizes are the same as carlisle, prices a lot better. :D
While I was on Holiday in Italy I also found a tire brand in these sizes, that was named "shin sheng" or something similar. :lol:

EDIT : Just noticed that he is the TEJWHEELS reseller for europe.
Maybe you can find the dealer for the USA ?
Last edited by Mark on Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
By hungngo
#37890
I got the tires from http://www.tentyres.nl
This is a reseller just 15 minutes from my house, and appeared a friend of my dad.
Found him by accident.
Problem for most of you is, He is in Holland!
The brand is Kings tyre. Sizes are the same as carlisle, prices a lot better. :D
While I was on Holiday in Italy I also found a tire brand in these sizes, that was named "shin sheng" or something similar. :lol:

EDIT : Just noticed that he is the TEJWHEELS reseller for europe.
Maybe you can find the dealer for the USA ?[/quote]

i didn't realize the tire doesn't come with the rim ( where did you get the rim ), with the rim do these fit over the existing axel with bearings ?
Last edited by hungngo on Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#37941
hungngo wrote:I got the tires from http://www.tentyres.nl
This is a reseller just 15 minutes from my house, and appeared a friend of my dad.
Found him by accident.
Problem for most of you is, He is in Holland!
The brand is Kings tyre. Sizes are the same as carlisle, prices a lot better. :D
While I was on Holiday in Italy I also found a tire brand in these sizes, that was named "shin sheng" or something similar. :lol:

EDIT : Just noticed that he is the TEJWHEELS reseller for europe.
Maybe you can find the dealer for the USA ?
i didn't realize the tire doesn't come with the rim ( where did you get the rim ), with the rim do these fit over the existing axel with bearings ?[/quote]

The rim comes from the same reseller.
Don't know the brand or anything. I assume you can get them at any TEJWHEELS dealer.
The rim has 2 bearings included. They have a 25 mm. axle diameter.
You can eather change your axle to 25 mm. or buy other bearings with the size you want !
User avatar
By Mark
#37942
Mark wrote:I got the tires from http://www.tentyres.nl
This is a reseller just 15 minutes from my house, and appeared a friend of my dad.
Found him by accident.
Problem for most of you is, He is in Holland!
The brand is Kings tyre. Sizes are the same as carlisle, prices a lot better. :D
While I was on Holiday in Italy I also found a tire brand in these sizes, that was named "shin sheng" or something similar. :lol:

EDIT : Just noticed that he is the TEJWHEELS reseller for europe.
Maybe you can find the dealer for the USA ?
hungngo wrote: i didn't realize the tire doesn't come with the rim ( where did you get the rim ), with the rim do these fit over the existing axel with bearings ?
The rim comes from the same reseller.
Don't know the brand or anything. I assume you can get them at any TEJWHEELS dealer.
The rim has 2 bearings included. They have a 25 mm. axle diameter.
You can eather change your axle to 25 mm. or buy other bearings with the size you want ![/quote]
User avatar
By Mark
#37969
Got a Peg Adventure for free from a relative.
With great battery, charger and everything working fine.
Only the schifter needs some small adjustments.
Started drivers training today with the kids, to get them ready for the real thing.... :twisted:
User avatar
By Mark
#38173
Got some work done on the gaucho today again.
First I installed 2 tyres on the rims.
The other 2 have to wait, because I have to weld plates in the rim for the sprockets.
Image

Also I cut a small frame that fit's under the Gaucho body.
From here the linkage to the rear suspension, and front suspension will be connected.
In the middle a stonger bar will be added to connect front to rear firmly.
At the sides I will add some flat metal, to mount to the body with bolt and nut.
The Gaucho has 3 standard holes on each side, that I will use for mounting.
Image

Then I cut some metal for the front suspension setup.
Image
The center bar is the standard front axle from the A151.
I added 1 bar on each side for the hub.
This bar is 20 cm. long.
On the bottom and top, a metal strip will be added for the connection to the hub.(see black drawing)
Above the original hub a spring will be added, to give the Gaucho suspension. ( See yellow drawing)
The original shaft through the hub is 7 mm.
I'm planning to use 2 pieces of the Gaucho rear axle for this now, because the distance is much longer.
The rear axle is 12 mm. thick.
Of course the hub itself wil also be stronger.

That's it for now. More tommorow. (If the wife will let me :D )
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#38242
The wife let me, and I got a few more things done again.

I welded the frame for under the Gaucho, together with the 2 flat metal strips on each side.
Image

Also I welded the front axle and constucted the end plates for the hubs.
Drilled a 12 mm hole through the hubs.
I then tried a gaucho rear spring in this setup, for which it was designed.
Image

Put a wheel on just for the looks, and made a picture upside down.
Image :shock:

Next monday work starts, so it will go a little slower from then.... :x
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#38320
I'm not happy with the front suspension.
Image

Initially I saw this design in the archived forum in hotrodtodd's post.
http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/foru ... C_ID=12634

But just yesterday I noticed that he changed his design.
So I tested my own design, and it's not working great. :oops:

The load from the spring on the hub, makes steering a little more difficult.
Also, because the wheel pushes on the hub under an angle,
the hub tries to "collapse", and this makes the sliding upwards difficult.
Therefore I think I'm gone change my design into a fully suspendable front axle. :|
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#39363
It's extremely busy at work, but finally I found the time for a new upload.
It seems like christmas arrived early this year. :D
Image

After unpacking I was a little in shock.....
WOW these motors are BIG :shock:
Compared to the standard Gaucho motors :
Image
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By AlexL
#39405
Mark wrote:It's extremely busy at work, but finally I found the time for a new upload.
It seems like christmas arrived early this year. :D
Image

After unpacking I was a little in shock.....
WOW these motors are BIG :shock:
Compared to the standard Gaucho motors :
Image

ahhh those motors are HUGE! dude THAT is awesome!
User avatar
By AlexL
#42570
bricklayer99 wrote:Ok, you gotta update, you've been allocated plenty of time :D . I've been waiting to see this thing built :twisted:
+1 opps I mean + !
User avatar
By Mark
#57586
very sorry guys. time slipped through my fingers. started working on the gaucho yesterday again! haven't fotgotten you. don't worry. updates will follow soon.
User avatar
By Mark
#58427
Ok, here we go. (again)

Few weeks ago I bought a fifth rim. I was looking for an easy way to install the sprockets onto the back rims.
Image
I split the fifth rim in half. Mounted the sprocket on the center pieces of each half.
Image
Each half will be welded on one of the 2 back-rims, in a way that the sprokets are just next to the tire.
I just have to turn the halfs down in diameter, and in distance, to make the perfect distance.
Nice extra is, that there will be an extra bearing, almost in line with the sprocket, for extra strength.
Image

Also I cut some tubes to fit the front wheel hubs, for the 25mm. bearings of the new wheels.
Image
Image
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Mark
#58854
After doing some test runs today with the newer Gaucho, with 2 new installed 20Ah batteries,
Image
I started working on the project again.
I cut of the original front axle mounting brackets.
This way the metal frame will be lower, and the new front axle will have more suspension travel.
Image
Then I created some tubing to extend the metal frame to the front.
Image
The same frame will be created towards the rear later.
It appears the original rear wheel springs from the Gaucho, fit in the front fake suspension parts.
Image
I'm not sure if I'm going to use another set of springs like this or not.
If anybody has any experience using these springs, I would be happy to hear about it. :D
To be continued.
Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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