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Electronic Scooter Controllers have become a popular addition to our vehicles. Ask specific questions about ESCs here!

***WARNING*** this section is for ADVANCED MODDERS. if you try anything in this section you NEED to expect minor issues with the build up to and including complete FAILURE of EVERYTHING in your freshly built BPRO.

Have fun ;-) :-)
User avatar
By toycrusher
#117030
This is an alternative to a full-blown ESC and works with 12v/24v and likely even more. It only involves about $30 or so in parts. It can be adapted to most any BPRO brand and model. You will need:

24v Peg throttle pedal
http://tigerimports.net/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=8226
Image

12/24V DPDT relay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181302854814?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Image

And this diagram

Peg hi-low auto pedal.jpg


This is a simple way to give a softer start to any ride. The first part of pedal travel puts the motors in series for 1/2 the voltage, 1/2 the speed, and a "soft" start because the wheel with the least traction will get most of the power. When the pedal is fully pressed the motors switch to parallel for full power and speed. When the pedal is released braking occurs. It will work for 12v with a 12v relay, 18v with a 24v relay, or 24v and above (to a point) using a 24v relay. Power flows through the stock shifter switch so upgrading the switch and wiring may be necessary if starting with a 12v or less BPRO. If you are running 36v through the system it would be wise to move the fwd/rev duties from the stock shifter to a second DPDT relay.
Last edited by toycrusher on Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#117034
Great write up! I knew I was holding onto those pedals from going esc for a reason. I will be trying this out soon!! thanks
#117036
Long time lurker, first time poster. The forum has been awesome in helping me mod my kids' PWs.
Since I'm was going to try this on a PW, I'm assuming I can wire the pedal directly to the switch since my PWs do not have the Thermo Protector shown in the diagram?
#117039
If you are using a stock power wheels battery, you don't have to worry about it because the circuit breaker is built into the battery itself. If you are using an aftermarket battery, you will need to run a fuse or circuit breaker. It doesn't matter if it's installed in the + or - side of the circuit. Peg rides come standard with the circuit breaker on the ground side, so that is how it was left in the diagram.
#117339
Here is an example of the same idea but using a second DPDT relay instead of the stock shifter. It's more work than necessary on a 24v ride but would be ideal for modding a 12v non-Peg brand.

Sorry for the illegible scribbles.
20140309_224117.jpg


And the end result
20140309_222023.jpg
#122359
Are you using the stock shifter or a second DPDT relay for fwd/reverse?
#122375
Pay close attention to the connections on the shifter. They are rearranged from where they would normally go.
By crh
#122379
I have 2 sets of plugs for the shifter, each has 6 in a set.

Also, I do not understand why the relay diagrams show the coil plus 4 connections on top and only 2 connections on the bottom when mine only has 4 total on top and bottom.
#122381
crh wrote:I have 2 sets of plugs for the shifter, each has 6 in a set.

Also, I do not understand why the relay diagrams show the coil plus 4 connections on top and only 2 connections on the bottom when mine only has 4 total on top and bottom.


*EDIT fixed connections to relay

I'm assuming you are doing this to a powerwheels vehicle? You will have to change up your wiring completely. You will retain only one 6 wire plug on the shifter. The other wires will be connected to the DPDT relay. In regards to the relay, it is drawn in the diagram different than how it actually looks. This may help:

.I I (Control coil) (Signal from pedal)
_ _ (Common) (Power and ground from fwd/reverse switch)
_ _ (Normally open) (Motor connections)
_ _ (Normally closed) (Jumper wire)
Last edited by toycrusher on Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By crh
#122384
Toycrusher, Thank you so much for your help. This has been frustrating.
Could you diagram it for me? Motor connections go on open and closed? Do I put the power and ground into the same plug on the same side?
#122385
Your really going to have to trace the wires using the first diagram above. I fixed the relay description in my last post. Sorry about that. :?
#122396
crh wrote:n your diagram, you have 5 connections on the top, isn't there only 4?


There are 8 total connections

I I - The coil terminals that control the relay

_ _ - The common terminals that are switched from normally closed to normally open terminals when the coil is activated

_ _ - The Normally open terminals, no connection until coil is closed

_ _ - The normally closed terminals. These have connection to the common terminals except when the coil is closed
By crh
#122399
The diagram of the relay shows 5 on the top connected, the red coil, then black, then 3 red. I am sorry I am having a hard time understanding the the 5 connections on the top per the diagram when there are only 4 on top of the actual relay.
#122444
This should help. The relay now looks like it's real-life counterpart :D

Peg hi-low auto pedal -b.jpg
#122656
boostedride wrote:so am i understanding this correctly, you only use the reverse switch from the shifter?


Yes, the hi/low function is performed by the DPDT relay. It's not a true soft start, just an automatic hi/low that can prolong gearbox life :)
#122659
ordered the stuff already just wanted to make sure. now i have not looked at the shifter assembly on this before. so will gear 1 act as forward only and reverse when tripped will be reverse? just want to make sure i'm reading this correct. have my HPI motors ordered, 2 12v 18ah batteries for 24v, treaded tires, ordered lights, and some other things.
#122662
What ride are you modding?
#122672
I'm not sure about the guts of that shifter, but basically you are only using the fwd/rev part of it.

rzr900.jpg


I really really really don't quite understand this diagram... :?

You may have to use a second DPDT relay for fwd & reverse
Last edited by toycrusher on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#122674
ya i looked at that also because i was trying to figure out what was going on with the shifter from new (month ago) i only have 1 wheel in low and if you you dont cram the shifter back only one in high. can i use more of a toggle for reverse and forward or is that not possible?
#122675
You can definitely ditch the stock shift box and rig up anything you want. A pw rocker switch, a toggles to trigger a relay, or you can get creative and modify the stock shifter box to work.
#122686
so when you say rocker (since i haven't tore into the shifter on the rzr) do you mean similar to what the peg perego have on the gator? it has 6 terminals i believe and is spring loaded, at least the reverse one is.
does it have to be 6 terminal? could you give an example an optional piece or switch i could use? i can wire whatever just need to know what i need :D
#122700
Yes, like that. Dpdt switches (6 prong) come in rocker style and toggle style. You can get whatever fits the location but it needs to be 6 prong.

Alternatively, you can use a 2 wire on/off switch to trigger an additional dpdt relay to handle directional duties. Using a multimeter, you could even use the original shifter for this. Just find the 2 connections that have continuity in the reverse position.
#123037
not a problem but I will need a few days ;)
#123320
This should take care of you once the slow boat arrives :D

Peg hi-low auto pedal dbl dpdt jpg.jpg
Last edited by toycrusher on Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
By crh
#123390
Mine finally worked but now I have hooked up a key, horn, and stereo to one of the 12 volt batteries and nothing works except you can hear the relay a little bit when the key is turned.
Can anyone help with an accessory wiring for this diagram?
#123415
Because this system is only active when the pedal is pressed, there is no need for a key switch. Your best bet is to run a third accessory battery to power your accessories and use individual switches as you see fit.
#123450
That makes sense. This will get you wired up with a key switch. You can run a second lead coming out of the key switch to activate a second relay for your accessory battery. Just follow the same pattern, key switch to 86 of acc relay. Be sure you jump 85 together between both relays since the key switch is on the 24v circuit. Connect 30 to your 12v acc battery and 87 out to your acc switches. Have fun ;)

Peg hi-low auto pedal dbl dpdt key jpg.jpg
By crh
#123458
Hi Toy Crusher,

Thank you. I had the 1 relay for the motors hooked up. Would I be able to add the horn and radio to the key accessory or should I do that separately with a another relay?
#123459
The key and SPDT relay control power to the foot pedal, deactivating the ride if pesky neighbor kids try to use it 8-)

If you want the key to also control power flow to your accessories, you will need a second SPDT relay and 12v battery, in addition to the DPDT relay and the SPDT relay already in the diagram. Just wire the second SPDT relay in the manner I described above. :D
By crh
#123464
Toy Crusher,

I did the original schematic which has the 1 dpdt relay used, not 2 relays. Do I need to rewire with 2nd dpdt relay? or how would I connect the accessories with 1 1 Dpdt relay only?
#123465
In addition to your single DPDT relay:

To add a key switch for the motors, your need to add a key switch and an SPDT relay

To add a key switch to control the motor AND accessories you need a key switch, accessory battery, and two SPDT relays

If you do not want a key switch, you can use a separate battery to power your accessories, or you can tap into one of your batteries to pull 12v from. This is not as desirable because it discharges your batteries un-evenly and if you are running lights you will see them dim when the ride is in motion.
#123708
I want to make sure I understand exactly what I'm looking at here. This wiring (first diagram) totally bypasses the master control board and essentially wires the foot pedal directly (through the relay)to the motors? Reverse is maintained by a rocker switcher (press and hold while pressing the accelerator to go backwards) and that's it?

I managed to blow the master control board on my son's inherited 24v Super Gaucho (he had it all of one day) and I'm looking for the cheapest/easiest way to get it running again. I'm a touch intimidated to attempt the scooter controller but this looks more straight forward.

In order to do this I'd need to source the following parts:
24v throttle pedal (but not the existing one I have correct?)
24v DPDT Relay
Reverse push button (possible to use the existing shifter?)
Thermo protector (will the existing one still work or do I need new?)
I take it RY3 shown on the relay is a resistor?

I have no interest in getting the accessories (lights, etc) working. I just want him to be able to go forward and reverse.

Thanks!
#123755
This wiring (first diagram) totally bypasses the master control board and essentially wires the foot pedal directly (through the relay)to the motors? Reverse is maintained by a rocker switcher (press and hold while pressing the accelerator to go backwards) and that's it?


Yes, that is the general operation.

I managed to blow the master control board on my son's inherited 24v Super Gaucho (he had it all of one day) and I'm looking for the cheapest/easiest way to get it running again. I'm a touch intimidated to attempt the scooter controller but this looks more straight forward.


What generation Superpower do you have? Does it have the giant scooter motors or the newer 350 watt 700 series motors? Does it have the separate brake pedal?

I have never tried it, but it's possible the Superpower pan fits the standard Gaucho foot pedal board which would be beneficial for fitting the 24v 2 position foot pedal. Also, the Superpower has only a micro switch for reverse, so you will need a second DPDT relay for fwd/reverse functions

In order to do this I'd need to source the following parts:
24v throttle pedal (but not the existing one I have correct?)
24v DPDT Relay
Reverse push button (possible to use the existing shifter?)
Thermo protector (will the existing one still work or do I need new?)
I take it RY3 shown on the relay is a resistor?


You will need two DPDT relays
You will need a third DPDT relay or a SPDT relay if you want to use a separate brake pedal
You can use the existing shifter for reverse activation
Original circuit breaker will work
Ignore RY3, it does not seem to be necessary from my experience (others are welcome to say otherwise ;) )
#123767
toycrusher wrote:
This wiring (first diagram) totally bypasses the master control board and essentially wires the foot pedal directly (through the relay)to the motors? Reverse is maintained by a rocker switcher (press and hold while pressing the accelerator to go backwards) and that's it?


Yes, that is the general operation.


Is there a big benefit in going the scooter controller route? I've been reading through the Scooter Controller Full Schematics thread as well. Again, this seems more straightforward but it seems to get more complicated with every post!

toycrusher wrote:
I managed to blow the master control board on my son's inherited 24v Super Gaucho (he had it all of one day) and I'm looking for the cheapest/easiest way to get it running again. I'm a touch intimidated to attempt the scooter controller but this looks more straight forward.


What generation Superpower do you have? Does it have the giant scooter motors or the newer 350 watt 700 series motors? Does it have the separate brake pedal?

I have never tried it, but it's possible the Superpower pan fits the standard Gaucho foot pedal board which would be beneficial for fitting the 24v 2 position foot pedal. Also, the Superpower has only a micro switch for reverse, so you will need a second DPDT relay for fwd/reverse functions


I believe it is the first generation. Separate brake pedal. It's silver and looks like this:
Image


toycrusher wrote:
In order to do this I'd need to source the following parts:
24v throttle pedal (but not the existing one I have correct?)
24v DPDT Relay
Reverse push button (possible to use the existing shifter?)
Thermo protector (will the existing one still work or do I need new?)
I take it RY3 shown on the relay is a resistor?


You will need two DPDT relays
You will need a third DPDT relay or a SPDT relay if you want to use a separate brake pedal
You can use the existing shifter for reverse activation
Original circuit breaker will work
Ignore RY3, it does not seem to be necessary from my experience (others are welcome to say otherwise ;) )


I don't care if it's a second brake pedal or not. I thought the Gaucho had mechanical brakes? Anyway, all I know is the boys were playing on it last night and thing doesn't even work so I'd like to get it up and running soon. Your help is greatly appreciated!
#123771
:shock: :shock: :shock:

That is in ridiculously good condition!!!!

I'd hate for you to chop it up to go the cheap route. I have the same ride, my circuit board is stupid so i'm in the middle of a conversion to Dual 36v ESCs. It's really not difficult to ditch your factory circuit board and convert to a generic 24V ESC. You already have the variable throttle, brake switch, and shift switch. You will need a pair of DPDT relays for fwd/rev and for electric brake in case of a controller failure. You will keep the mechanical brakes too.

If you up for it, I will try to walk you through it. You should make a separate thread however.
#123780
toycrusher wrote::shock: :shock: :shock:

That is in ridiculously good condition!!!!

I'd hate for you to chop it up to go the cheap route. I have the same ride, my circuit board is stupid so i'm in the middle of a conversion to Dual 36v ESCs. It's really not difficult to ditch your factory circuit board and convert to a generic 24V ESC. You already have the variable throttle, brake switch, and shift switch. You will need a pair of DPDT relays for fwd/rev and for electric brake in case of a controller failure. You will keep the mechanical brakes too.

If you up for it, I will try to walk you through it. You should make a separate thread however.


That one's actually not mine, just a pic I stole so you knew exactly what I had. Mine's in pretty good shape though. All the lights work and pieces are present minus the tools for the toolbox and seat belts. Only issue is the blown circuit board. I'll start a new thread then and get this project rolling.
#126496
So, when I first looked at the schematic, it appeared that you are only using one motor for braking? And that is hoe it works in real life now that I have it wired up. Is there a reason why both motors aren't used?
#126513
GR40LSC wrote:So, when I first looked at the schematic, it appeared that you are only using one motor for braking? And that is hoe it works in real life now that I have it wired up. Is there a reason why both motors aren't used?


It was a quick mod to the Peg diagram. That's how they came out of the box so it was easiest to leave it be. There is no other good reason why both motors aren't used. :lol:
#129034
gradymilo wrote:I want to do this to a power wheels dune racer, is the wiring going to be terribly different?



Nope, just about the same :D
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