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Electronic Scooter Controllers have become a popular addition to our vehicles. Ask specific questions about ESCs here!

***WARNING*** this section is for ADVANCED MODDERS. if you try anything in this section you NEED to expect minor issues with the build up to and including complete FAILURE of EVERYTHING in your freshly built BPRO.

Have fun ;-) :-)
#66844
Quick question, I'm gonna try this setup on Polaris 700. Can someone tell me the post numbers for stock Polaris h/l/r switches as they compare to initial diagram? (also,I assume I need to bypass bus-bar)
Also, can stock wire be used from h/l/r switch to the dpdt switches?

****Ooops...I forgot I can just check continuity with my switches and compare to the first diagram in this thread and make sure they are the same when switch is on/off. What gauge is everyone using for the wires as relates to my second question?
Thanks!
Last edited by medmike on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
#66892
schoeny wrote:Read through this thread, and love all of the information. I do have one question on the 12V LEDs though. I see in the diagram that I have to wire them in series so that they use 24V. However, I plan on having a set of strobes too, that I won't have anything to wire in series with.

I was looking around and found this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-to-12V-DC-D ... 19ca35ba2c

If I were to take that and wire it in, and have the 12V output run to a terminal block, I could just power the strobes/lights/radio/etc at 12V, right? (Just want to make sure this isn't a "too easy to be true" item). Is this going to cause any strain, or extra battery drain on the system?

I don't know anything about the part/solution you mentioned, but I do know that you can run accessories off of battery 1 (at 12v) in these 24v ESC setups.

What gauge is everyone using for the wires as relates to my second question?


From the first post:
Also, with the exception of the wiring between the batteries and Controller, and between the Controller and Relays/motors (which can typically be placed close together), all of the remaining wiring can be small gauge, and multi-strand cables like Ethernet (CAT5/CAT6) or telephone (CAT3) could be used to make this a cheap, but neat installation.

For the record, I am a novice and couldn't get the setup described here to work properly and instead went with a simpler diagram that taz put on another thread. So far so good on that. I just hoped that maybe offering answers on stuff that I do know would help out those asking the questions. Good luck on your projects.
Last edited by okiedrake on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
#69330
Another question about the controller.

I have the key switch turned on, brakes are not wired (so in effect, they are off), and the hall effect is wired up.

When I turn the system on, the brake light connector has 24V regardless of whether the brakes are active or not. This is causing all kinds of issues with the relays functioning correctly.

I'm assuming this means my controller is trash (which sucks because of their return policy, and this is the first time it's been connected to anything)?
#69331
The brake lights have been causing issues on mine as well. Not entirely sure what the problem is but one of my brake lights had a different resistance than the other one for some reason. I've taken the lights out for now, but this controller is damaged and it's the second one I've bought. (It will cause the Jeep the run wide open if I plug the brake pedal in.) I have a third controller on the shelf, but am not sure I want to put it in yet.

Shawn
#69419
ANOTHER BAD LBD-14 HERE, aka YK40CT sold by tncscooters.com

Same problem as reported by atleast 5 users here that after using the brake sensor once motor power gets full throttle and after no power to the motors again yet all other functions remain working.

Of course when I notified tncscooters of the problem Chris Rouse said "I may have shorted out the controller" and he hopes for 0 liability, but the more I look online there has to be a half dozen or more persons on this site alone who've had the same failure and have been told to just eat the financial loss. Their no warranty thing is fine with me, and likely totally lawful, but this would seem to be an easily reproducible, out of the box, "DEFECT", I'm sure that I must not be the first person to notify Chris Rouse of the defect and I'm also sure that every single one of you who've also had the same exact issue couldn't have all been the cause of this failure using the break signal connector of this controller.

If you are similarly situated with a LBD14 which functions normal with exception to the motor power after using the brake signal connector: PLEASE CONTACT ME!!!!

1. A snap shot of to top of the controller with serial no in view would be great along with a picture of the top and bottom of the controller board only if you are comfortable with removing it. (i can confirm multiple board revisions already)

2. Approximate date of purchase

3. If you notified the seller of the defect, and yes/no if you've retained a copy of the correspondence.

4. If anyone was endangered by the battery powered vehicle when the controller powered the motors immediately after use of the brake signal connector. (e.g. "runaway" scooter)

5. If you purchased a replacement of the same "LBD14", if it failed, if you omitted using the brake wires, and if it worked 100% a snapshot of the pcb and the serial no would be appreciated.

Please contact me: class.act.lbd14@gmail.com

Depending how many are afflicted will likely encourage how far I take this, The most that I would likely require any of you would be to file an affidavit with your county recorder stating what happened with your lbd14 controller (very easy and at that point I would pay your filing fee)

Thanks.
#69461
Idone,

I can state that the "runaway" scooter issue you describe happened with three LBD-14 controllers I purchased in the last two months (I could look up the exact dates if needed). As soon as the brake signal connector was plugged in, the motors would instantly run. Step on the brakes and then the controller would no longer ground the motors. So after that they were no go. Unfortunately, I chucked those two controllers in the garbage already when I cleaned off my toolbox. The third one in my PW right now has the same issue though. I solved this by simply wiring up the brake pedal through some bosch style relays to actuate the RY1 DPDT brake relay.

Hmmm, I guess I had better contact TNC Scooters myself and see what they say.

EDIT July 11: I actually did not throw the bad controllers away. I had tucked them away on top of a shelf.
Last edited by daveweber34 on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
#69464
I may have figured it out....

Since my brake lights were getting 24V upon turning the key, I took it apart and played around with it.

I think they have the brake and brake light connectors switched. If you look at the brake pedal, there is no voltage when you turn the key on, only when I put the brake light connector leads together....

Food for thought. Still have some playing with it to do to verify that, but I think that may be the cause of my issue above, as well as possibly some of yours.
#69467
schoeny wrote:I may have figured it out....

Since my brake lights were getting 24V upon turning the key, I took it apart and played around with it.

I think they have the brake and brake light connectors switched. If you look at the brake pedal, there is no voltage when you turn the key on, only when I put the brake light connector leads together....

Food for thought. Still have some playing with it to do to verify that, but I think that may be the cause of my issue above, as well as possibly some of yours.


The two controllers that quit working went into the garbage already. So, I don't have them to test out any more. The one I have in my PW right now still has the issue of the motors running when ever the brake signal connector was plugged in. Unplug it and everything else (except for the brake pedal, I never pressed it in on controller #3) works fine again. As such, I had the brakes bypass the controller altogether. I simply ran the brake pedal through a spdt relay. Step on the brake pedal and it closes the relay which provides power to the control side of RY1 (the DPDT brake relay). Now, the whole system is up and running.

EDIT July 11: I did not throw out the controllers. I found them tucked away on a shelf.
Last edited by daveweber34 on Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#69487
The controller I have in the Jeep now has the same issue as yours. If I plug in the brake connector, it runs away full tilt. Everything else works fine with it unplugged though.

Shawn
#69493
AZStang wrote:The controller I have in the Jeep now has the same issue as yours. If I plug in the brake connector, it runs away full tilt. Everything else works fine with it unplugged though.

Shawn


If you just want to fix it and be done with it, do this:

Image
EDIT: DO NOT USE THIS DIAGRAM. SEE NEXT DIAGRAM FOR BETTER UPDATED ONE.

EDIT: Deleted text here that is no longer relevant.

EDIT:
LBD-14~1.png
LBD-14~1.png (7.87 KiB) Viewed 9747 times


Ok. So basically what I did was get rid of using the brake signal and brake light connectors. I even ditched the relay I originally had installed as it is not needed.

Since the motor B+ wire is soldered right to the battery B+ input on the printed circuit board, the motor B+ is always hot. So, when you are wiring up the motor connector, you can sneak in an extra 20 gauge wire to it to run B+ to the brake pedal. Since the brake pedal is normally open in the configuration I have displayed, the brakes will be off. Step on the brake pedal and it will close and provide power to the RY1 brake relay along with any brake lights that you have wired upped.

I hope this helps.
Last edited by daveweber34 on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
#69557
daveweber34 wrote:Idone,

I can state that the "runaway" scooter issue you describe happened with three LBD-14 controllers I purchased in the last two months....
Hmmm, I guess I had better contact TNC Scooters myself and see what they say.


Sec. 2.315. IMPLIED WARRANTY: FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Where the seller at the time of contracting has reason to know any particular purpose for which the goods are required and that the buyer is relying on the seller's skill or judgment to select or furnish suitable goods, there is unless excluded or modified under the next section an implied warranty that the goods shall be fit for such purpose.

Acts 1967, 60th Leg., p. 2343, ch. 785, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1967.

From http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/BC.2.htm

That's the law >_> and in my state is you've broke another law just by using the internet to break the first one. (also I'm fairly sure there is a federal law with regards to the latter.
#70252
schoeny wrote:I may have figured it out....

Since my brake lights were getting 24V upon turning the key, I took it apart and played around with it.

I think they have the brake and brake light connectors switched. If you look at the brake pedal, there is no voltage when you turn the key on, only when I put the brake light connector leads together....

Food for thought. Still have some playing with it to do to verify that, but I think that may be the cause of my issue above, as well as possibly some of yours.


I think you sir are 100% correct, I came to the same conclusion the other day after looking at http://www.tncscooters.com/LBD14.php shows the opposite of the physical labeling on the controllers connections.

One would tend to believe the markings on the controller over that of spec sheet but why give conflicting information anyways? Would they rather have repeat customers coming back because of a good experience or customers coming back to buy the same item over and over again because the product is labeled to have customers hook it up and it immediately fail once the brake is pressed?

They should be made to replace or refund all who've been affected by their error. The wife is saying to report them here before I do anything else. Should have a response from tncscooters within 14 days of the complaint on bbb.

If any of you feel so inclined I'd suggest you do the same. ;) It's a good first step (after being denied a refund/replacement by the business of course)
https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints ... et-started
#70303
idone wrote:There are at least 2 ebay sellers out of china with the same controller for $26 shipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320803360838

I'll rather get my replacement shipped right out of HK and the seller provide 100% satisfaction guarantee than to buy from someone who has already imported them and provides only grief.


Hey idone, After looking at this ebay sellers detailed listing, they do offer 100% satisfaction, but you have to return the controller to them. I'm guessing you've not checked into the cost of shipping it back to Hong Kong. I have one of the LBD14 controllers from TNC Scooters and it works great. I've not had any of the problems you describe here. If you think the problem is limited to the LBD14 controller, the I suggest you try the Blue Sky LK02 controller from TNC Scooters. The Blue Sky LK02 has the exact same connections and specifications as the LBD14 and it costs the same too.

I've purchased a lot of parts from the guys at TNC and I admit I've burned up a few controllers (my fault), but I have to say they are still a better than throwing you money directly at the Chinese and hoping for the best.
#70344
idone wrote:
schoeny wrote:I may have figured it out....

Since my brake lights were getting 24V upon turning the key, I took it apart and played around with it.

I think they have the brake and brake light connectors switched. If you look at the brake pedal, there is no voltage when you turn the key on, only when I put the brake light connector leads together....

Food for thought. Still have some playing with it to do to verify that, but I think that may be the cause of my issue above, as well as possibly some of yours.


I think you sir are 100% correct, I came to the same conclusion the other day after looking at http://www.tncscooters.com/LBD14.php shows the opposite of the physical labeling on the controllers connections.

One would tend to believe the markings on the controller over that of spec sheet but why give conflicting information anyways? Would they rather have repeat customers coming back because of a good experience or customers coming back to buy the same item over and over again because the product is labeled to have customers hook it up and it immediately fail once the brake is pressed?


This possible issue with the labeling on the connectors isn't jumping out at me. I see the terminology they use on the spec sheet is different than what the labels on the connectors say.

Spec sheet says Brake Signal Connector; Red and Black goes to Brake Signal. Then my controller has the Red and Black connector labeled Brake Light.

Spec sheet says Brake Connector; Yellow and Black goes to Brake. Then my controller has the Yellow and Black connector labeled Brake.

Are you saying Brake Signal Connector; Red and Black is actually supposed to be plugged into the brake pedal and not the lights as it's labeled?

Thanks,
Shawn
#70348
AZStang wrote:
idone wrote:
schoeny wrote:I may have figured it out....

Since my brake lights were getting 24V upon turning the key, I took it apart and played around with it.

I think they have the brake and brake light connectors switched. If you look at the brake pedal, there is no voltage when you turn the key on, only when I put the brake light connector leads together....

Food for thought. Still have some playing with it to do to verify that, but I think that may be the cause of my issue above, as well as possibly some of yours.


I think you sir are 100% correct, I came to the same conclusion the other day after looking at http://www.tncscooters.com/LBD14.php shows the opposite of the physical labeling on the controllers connections.

One would tend to believe the markings on the controller over that of spec sheet but why give conflicting information anyways? Would they rather have repeat customers coming back because of a good experience or customers coming back to buy the same item over and over again because the product is labeled to have customers hook it up and it immediately fail once the brake is pressed?


This possible issue with the labeling on the connectors isn't jumping out at me. I see the terminology they use on the spec sheet is different than what the labels on the connectors say.

Spec sheet says Brake Signal Connector; Red and Black goes to Brake Signal. Then my controller has the Red and Black connector labeled Brake Light.

Spec sheet says Brake Connector; Yellow and Black goes to Brake. Then my controller has the Yellow and Black connector labeled Brake.

Are you saying Brake Signal Connector; Red and Black is actually supposed to be plugged into the brake pedal and not the lights as it's labeled?

Thanks,
Shawn


I think it's a result of issues with the controller "shorting" or whatever you want to call it.

If I connect the brake light indicator (which is getting 24V all the time) as the brake pedal, and the Brake connector (which only has power when the Brake Light Indicator is closed (brake is pushed)), I do not have the ability to power the motors. Since the brake light indicator is active, if I connect it, then the power never gets to the motors.

However, if you were to wire without using either the brake or brake light connectors, the controller works. You'd just have to figure out a way, like above, to use the brake pedal to shut off the power to the motors.

I have ordered another controller, in an attempt to have a fully functional unit. I am also going to use the "noise filtering" on the motors to attempt to protect it, but if this one has the same issue, I'll be planning a way to wire the brake pedal to function outside of the controller with another relay.
#70435
schoeny wrote:
Spec sheet says Brake Connector; Yellow and Black goes to Brake. Then my controller has the Yellow and Black connector labeled Brake.

Are you saying Brake Signal Connector; Red and Black is actually supposed to be plugged into the brake pedal and not the lights as it's labeled?

Thanks,
Shawn


Yes after looking to the manufacture, and to other resellers pinouts of the controller, it would seem tncscooters purposely misleads us.

notice how they show the red/black going to the switch not the yellow black.
This is another reseller for yi-yun.
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/hoo ... 24500B.htm
this is the same exact 30amp 24v controller
#70443
Before everyone gets all crazy on TNC Scooters and Mr. Chris Rouse, why don't you give him a call (TNC #901-734-4207).

I talked to him last week for about 1/2 hour or so. I described everything I had going on with my controllers. I shipped two failed controllers back to him. One in which the motors were "no-go" after stepping on the brakes, and one in which the motors ran "full-tilt" when the brake light connector was plugged in. He received them and has sent a replacement controller to me (Blue Sky LK-02). I was told it is identical to the LBD-14 except made by a different manufacturer. He wants me to plug it in and see if I have the same issue or not.

With the old, failed controllers, he plans on doing some diagnostics on them. I have not heard the results of this yet. I will post the outcome of how this Blue Sky LK-02 controller works and what Mr. Rouse says regarding the failed controllers when I have that information.
#70448
AZStang wrote:If you look at that picture from the ebay ad you posted earlier, they have it wrong then too. You can read the labels on the connectors and it shows Red/Black is Brake Lights.

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/sho ... 0&format=0

Shawn


True true, but theirs isn't meant to be a schematic, they only reprint the text from the labels in their picture, as they are presented on the actual product. And you will also notice all resellers who post pictures: tncscooters etc. show the 36v model, as yi-yun have no stock photos of the 24v 30amp 500w controller.
#70451
daveweber34 wrote:Before everyone gets all crazy on TNC Scooters and Mr. Chris Rouse, why don't you give him a call (TNC #901-734-4207).

I talked to him last week for about 1/2 hour or so. I described everything I had going on with my controllers. I shipped two failed controllers back to him. One in which the motors were "no-go" after stepping on the brakes, and one in which the motors ran "full-tilt" when the brake light connector was plugged in. He received them and has sent a replacement controller to me (Blue Sky LK-02). I was told it is identical to the LBD-14 except made by a different manufacturer. He wants me to plug it in and see if I have the same issue or not.

With the old, failed controllers, he plans on doing some diagnostics on them. I have not heard the results of this yet. I will post the outcome of how this Blue Sky LK-02 controller works and what Mr. Rouse says regarding the failed controllers when I have that information.


Before I got all crazy I did email them.... no reply... and only after a paypal dispute did I receive any communications.. In which they obviously refused any returns as you have somehow received. Good to know their customer service is spotty and prejudiced.

You DO seem to be the only one who has been allowed a return!!!

Which connection did you connect to your brake switch? yellow/black or red/black?

Thanks
#70453
Idone,

I can only comment on my experience, which so far, I would rate as acceptable. We haven't even discussed a refund yet as Mr. Rouse wants to determine if the failures are my error, or a controller problem causing this. From my point of view, it sure seems like it must be controller related, but I'll have more information once that secondary controller shows up and he does some diag. on the failed controllers I sent him.

As for the connector wire colors....the yellow/black wire connector was labeled as "brake" and that is the one I connected to the brake pedal circuit. The red/black wire connector was labeled "brake light" and that is the one I hooked up to the RY1 brake relay and brake light circuit.
#70464
I had extensive conversations with Chris several months ago about the wiring schematic contained in this thread. At that time he confirmed the design was solid, but he wasn't sure what was causing the failure. Upon learning that I am not the only one having these issues I have since re-established a dialog with him. His most recent reply was that only the PW folks were having issues with the controller and he was going to review the schematic again and do another round of testing of the controller. I have found his response thus far to be above and beyond that required for the failure of a ±$20 part. I'm confident he will report back with his findings and issue refunds if his part is found to be at fault.

I have since wondered though if anyone outside the PW world is using the brake connections. Do any mobility scooters have brake pedals and brake lights?

Shawn
#70466
daveweber34 wrote:Idone,

I can only comment on my experience, which so far, I would rate as acceptable. We haven't even discussed a refund yet as Mr. Rouse wants to determine if the failures are my error, or a controller problem causing this. From my point of view, it sure seems like it must be controller related...

As for the connector wire colors....the yellow/black wire connector was labeled as "brake" and that is the one I connected to the brake pedal circuit. The red/black wire connector was labeled "brake light" and that is the one I hooked up to the RY1 brake relay and brake light circuit.


Good to know, it seems everyone who has had a failure has had one using the yellow/black wires to bridge/short/connect/signal to the controller to output 24v to the red/black "brake lights" 24v connection.

daveweber34 wrote:
I talked to him last week for about 1/2 hour or so. ..He received them and has sent a replacement controller to me (Blue Sky LK-02)...He wants me to plug it in and see if I have the same issue or not.

With the old, failed controllers, he plans on doing some diagnostics on them. I have not heard the results of this yet. I will post the outcome of how this Blue Sky LK-02 controller works and what Mr. Rouse says regarding the failed controllers when I have that information.


Can you let us know the date he accepted a return/ you talked to him? Just curious if it is after the date I had initially pointed some things out to them as it would seem so. :)
#70490
idone wrote:Can you let us know the date he accepted a return/ you talked to him? Just curious if it is after the date I had initially pointed some things out to them as it would seem so. :)


I am pretty sure it was either last Tuesday or Wednesday (July 10 or 11) that I talked to Mr. Rouse. I mailed my bad controllers back to him on Friday and they arrived at TNC Scooters on Monday (I paid for delivery confirmation). On Tuesday, I received confirmation that the Blue Sky controller was mailed to me. It should be here shortly.
#71212
I received the Blue Sky controller from TNC in the mail and I have bench tested on my PW with no problems to speak of. Everything worked as it should. I had found and sent back two failed controllers of mine. One that where the motor was a "no-go" after I stepped on the brake pedal, and one where the motor ran full-tilt with the brake signal connector plugged in.

On the "no-go" controller:
Mr. Rouse: "The first controller, the one that was removed from the metal case has the Q2 transistor broken on it. We are unable to tell if the Q2 transistor was broken when the case was removed or if it burnt up the transistor causing the metal pin on the transistor to break. We really can't do much more analysis on this controller."


On the controller where the motors ran full speed:
Mr. Rouse: "The second controller, the one that is still in the metal case, seems to have some type of internal short that is causing about 16 volts to flow from the brake light indicator at all times. When the brake lever is depressed the output voltage increases to about 18 volts which is still not the same as the input voltage of 23.5 volts. Of the 20 other LBD14 units we have tested in our shop, from various batches and orders, non have exhibited this problem. So we are now looking into the circuit design that has been provided on Modified Power Wheels to see if anything in the design could have caused the internal short. Apparently some people have made this modification with no problems, while others can't seem to get it to work.

We have also contacted the Manufacturer in China to discuss what might have caused the internal short and we are providing them with the wiring diagram that is posted on Modified Power Wheels."
#71254
daveweber34 wrote:
On the controller where the motors ran full speed:
Mr. Rouse: "The second controller, the one that is still in the metal case, seems to have some type of internal short that is causing about 16 volts to flow from the brake light indicator at all times. When the brake lever is depressed the output voltage increases to about 18 volts which is still not the same as the input voltage of 23.5 volts. Of the 20 other LBD14 units we have tested in our shop, from various batches and orders, non have exhibited this problem. So we are now looking into the circuit design that has been provided on Modified Power Wheels to see if anything in the design could have caused the internal short. Apparently some people have made this modification with no problems, while others can't seem to get it to work.

We have also contacted the Manufacturer in China to discuss what might have caused the internal short and we are providing them with the wiring diagram that is posted on Modified Power Wheels."



Mine exhibits similar symptoms as yours that runs full speed, but mine no longer outputs to the motors. (ran full speed a few seconds after pressing the brake, turned the key off and never power to them again.

I connect 2 charged up 12v 7ah batteries, 25.7v output, with "power locks" shorted mine outputs 20.5v to the "brake lights" but the full 25.7v with the "brake" connection shorted.

2 new ones on their way, hopefully can find the problem with a good one here to test against.

Mind opening up that Blue Sky controller for some pics of the pcb??

Also thanks for the replies here guys, I really do appreciate it. :D
#72615
A small update,

My defective controller has been sent back for a refund (paypal's decision not theirs)

2x new controllers of same spec arrived from http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320803360838 Seller offered discount when purchasing more than one.

The new controllers have a different board all together in them, hooked up one in our jeep (haven't connected the brake lines yet) and it's running like a champ. Will bench test the other one later today before connecting the brake lines on the jeep.

I will post some pics of the pcb here later also

chozian wrote:
bookscholar wrote:I just hate Tncscooters and im not going to by from them again spent 21 dollars on crap eletronics


What happened? Details would be nice. Thanks!


Ya, elaborate please.
#72792
Bench tested; no run away motor power after shorting yellow/black brake connection, no voltage leak from "brake lights" connection afterward either.

Kid tested; 100% smiles, 0 runaway scares :)
I'd still love to see one of the comparable Blue Sky controllers pcb if anyone gets the chance.

YK31FT
IMG_20120807_085409.jpg
YK31FT 24v 500w 30amp YIYUN Controller
#72896
idone wrote:A small update,

My defective controller has been sent back for a refund (paypal's decision not theirs)

2x new controllers of same spec arrived from http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320803360838 Seller offered discount when purchasing more than one.

The new controllers have a different board all together in them, hooked up one in our jeep (haven't connected the brake lines yet) and it's running like a champ. Will bench test the other one later today before connecting the brake lines on the jeep.

I will post some pics of the pcb here later also


idone,

I've been following this thread and for the most part silently watch as you have bashed TNC Scooters, but in all honesty your not comparing the TNC Scooters LBD14 controller to another LBD14 controller from another supplier. Your controller is a YK31C which just happens to have the same connections as the LBD14 controller. Even your EBAY supplier indicates that the specifications for the YK31C controller are different than those of the TNC Scooters LBD14 controller. There are several other controllers available that have the same connections as the LBD14 controller, see Electric Scooter Parts (Item # SPD-24500B) which looks exactly like the TNC Scooters LBD14 controller and for all we know may be an LBD14 controller.

Having worked in the commercial electronics field for 25+ years I completely understand all the sellers of electric speed controllers not wanting take responsibility for hobbyist installing sensitive electronics equipment such as speed controllers. I have looked at all the major suppliers of speed controllers (Monster Scooter Parts, TNC Scooters, Electric Scooter Parts) all have the same policy with regards to returning speed controllers. Even this forum has a ***WARNING*** that complete failure is possible.

I have personally used the TNC Scooters LBD14 controller with great success on my power wheels projects, and I just purchased 2 more a few weeks ago for another up coming power wheels mod.

I hate to say this dude, but it like you taken some personal vengeance against TNC Scooters. Not sure what your beef with this is, but I don't think this forum is the place to air your dirty laundry. Some of us are happy with the service we have received and will gladly do business with them again.

- captinB
#72941
captinB wrote:.....



Just comparing a yiyun 24v 500w 30a controller to a yiyun 24v 500w 30a controller.

If you look through the lbd14 fail threads on here you will see there are a couple different board configurations for the YK40CT lbd14, I can say with 100% the one yiyun YK40CT I had from tncscooters failed INSTANTLY after using the brake, ( this was a just testing from a standstill) the 2 yiyun YK31FT both didn't fail after using the brake.
I wouldn't have even posted here about it, but after searching for a solution to the problem all I saw was many people here who had the exact same or very similar failure and enough within a close enough time frame for a person to wonder if the failed ones came from the same run/lot.
#72957
There have been different board configurations for the LBD-14? I did not know that. Hmmmm, make me wonder if I can find some numbers the one bad board I have here yet.

Regarding the Blue Sky controller I was sent, it works great. I don't think I'm going to take it apart for a picture of the PCB. I'm sure the board will be different (made by a different company) and I don't know what would be gained by taking a picture of it.

Now, some new news. Mr. Rouse contacted me today and gave me an update on one of the controllers I sent back that had the motors going full speed when the brake light connector was plugged in. He sent it back to the manufacturer in China for them to do diagnostics on and they have confirmed that they received it. They are going to be comparing the board I had with the diagram from this thread and he hopes that to have some definitive answers in a few days.
#73008
Well, I just finished wiring up/reassembling my Grande project. I ordered a new LBD14 a while ago, and never connected it.

Hooked everything up, connected the battery and turned it on. Voltage meter showed 24V, lights worked fine, moving the shifter was moving the relays.

Hit the gas, and throttle worked well. Hit the brake, and lights came on, released the brake and we have a runaway (It was on a box because I expected this). Now when I hit the brake, I get the lights to come on, but the throttle does not work at all.

I'm done with the LBD14, they are total garbage. That's two in a row, so it's not a fluke.

Definitely going to give TNC a buzz about this and try and get a blue sky out of it, because $60 including shipping for two controllers destined to fail is a horrible business model, and if they won't work with me to make it right, it's the last time I ever buy from them.
#73065
daveweber34 wrote:There have been different board configurations for the LBD-14? I did not know that. Hmmmm, make me wonder if I can find some numbers the one bad board I have here yet.


Yes sir,

SAM_2212.jpg

Image

daveweber34 wrote:Regarding the Blue Sky controller I was sent, it works great. I don't think I'm going to take it apart for a picture of the PCB. I'm sure the board will be different (made by a different company) and I don't know what would be gained by taking a picture of it.


No problem, I appreciate even the consideration. If I find another seller with them I will grab one or two and open them up.

daveweber34 wrote:Now, some new news. Mr. Rouse contacted me today and gave me an update on one of the controllers I sent back that had the motors going full speed when the brake light connector was plugged in. He sent it back to the manufacturer in China for them to do diagnostics on and they have confirmed that they received it. They are going to be comparing the board I had with the diagram from this thread and he hopes that to have some definitive answers in a few days.


Good to hear I guess, the diagram is fine though, my boy ran the jeep @ 12v without the hall effect pedal and key switch but with all relays while we waited for the new controllers to come... and besides that many have ran it without a problem and to be sure I ran it from our bench power supply before hooking up the yk40ct from tnc.

Another small update on my situation... paypal granted my refund as I shipped the defective controller back,.. but feel they haven't wasted enough of their customers time so they are appealing paypals decision.
Last edited by idone on Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
#73086
idone, I really appreciate the pictures.

Did both of those LDB14s fail? Or just one?

I'm wondering if I can't resolder my bad one/s to the other configuration if it does work....

And as a followup to that question, if one is a "working" version of the circuitry, which one, and can you map the wires to the connectors in that pic?
Last edited by schoeny on Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
#73096
schoeny wrote:idone, I really appreciate the pictures.

Did both of those LDB14s fail? Or just one?

I'm wondering if I can't resolder my bad one/s to the other configuration if it does work....

And as a followup to that question, if one is a "working" version of the circuitry, which one, and can you map the wires to the connectors in that pic?


Top one is example of one that will fail with only battery, powerlocks and brake (yellow black) connected.
Bottom image is off this forum, I'll find the thread in a bit if you don't first, I believe his ran awhile before failing.

***edit***
Fixed pinout .jpg
***edit***


Image

***edit***
add back of pcb .jpg
***edit***
Image
Last edited by idone on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
#73101
Didn't find the one thread yet but this one adds confirmation to my picture of the top pcb configuration which fails immediately after closing the "brake" circuit thus providing ground to the "brake lights" connection.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8252


***edit***
ahhh found the other thread that second pic is out of
***edit***

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=5239
Last edited by idone on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#73219
Okay, so I have been working on this set up after running 18v on stock equipment on my daughters Hurricane. I upgraded the gearboxes to handle this and motor upgrades in the future.

I have a question regarding the 100 ohm 10W 5% Wirewound Resistor. Can a 10% resistor be used in it's place? What would happen? Radio Shack didn't have any of the 5% even though their site said they had them in stock. I picked up the 10% just in case they would work and will check out the other RS stores in town tomorrow to see if they have them.

Please help me out on this one.
#73314
Okay, I started getting this put together and after assembly of everything according to the diagram on the first page I must have gotten something wrong here. When I power on the ignition I get Brake lights ON and no go.

Any clue as to what I may have crossed. I am going to give it another go over in the morning to make sure it is right but if this gives a blue to anyone please speak up.

I disconnected the brake just as a test and still lit up the brake lights. I must have one of the relays set up wrong.

Do the coils have a preference on each relay? As in a coil 1 and a coil 2.
#73386
Looking to do this setup to a McQueen PW I just picked up but also need to install a couple fans for the motor compartment. Where would I splice the fans in so they come on when the key switch is on? I am not going to be doing any lights or anything but it was mentioned earlier to keep those accys low amperage so I am worried a fan would be too much if I were to just splice them where lights would have been.

Secondly, would I want to run 12V or 24V fans?
Last edited by C4pt4inMatt on Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#73419
Brakes failed this yiyun controller too :(
Bench testing it with only battery, power locks, and closing the "brake" circuit didn't kill it... but connected to the relay, with the hall effect pedal connected somehow is instantly failing them as soon as the brake is pressed. Same no motor power after as the lbd14

We're now riding the one we originally bench tested, later I'll test the failed one to see if its leaking voltage to the brake lights like the others did.

What a bummer, for the next project i think ill try something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-48v-30A-DC- ... 0898833592
#73429
One of my 2 YK31FT 24v 500w 30amp YIYUN controllers failed as soon as I connected and pressed the brake. It didn't do the runaway like the lbd14/yk40ct. Testing the brake on the bench worked fine without the hall effect pedal, motors, and relays connected to the indicator power... in fact were running the one we first bench tested now, just without the 2 brake connections. Somehow either powering that relay with the brake light power or having the hall effect pedal when using the brake kills power to the motor for good. :/

I don't see the problem with the schematic posted on the first page.. it even works fine minus the controller and hall effect pedal as we ran that while waiting on these other controllers.

Good to hear the LK-02 is working :D we're loosing faith in these yiyun ones fast >_>
#73621
After reading idone's post and further inspecting my wiring I have found that my relay wiring is spot on.

This is a real bummer for me and the kids. Is there a specific multimeter test I can do to see if it is the controller?

I am getting brake lights on as soon as I connect the wires to the controller.
#73645
Tifosi wrote:After reading idone's post and further inspecting my wiring I have found that my relay wiring is spot on.

This is a real bummer for me and the kids. Is there a specific multimeter test I can do to see if it is the controller?

I am getting brake lights on as soon as I connect the wires to the controller.



So, with the brake lights on, your motors must be no-go, correct?

And, yes, there is a simple test to do with your multimeter.

The brake signal connector is ground side switched by the controller. Using your multimeter, check the ground wire from that connector. If you have any voltage showing up when the brake pedal isn't pressed, the controller is junk.

Now, for the solution. Call TNC Scooters and ask for Chris Rouse to send you a BlueSky LK-02 controller as a replacement. All of the connectors are the same and it will plug right up to the wiring you have for the LBD-14. Explain what is going on and how you followed the diagram here at Modifiedpowerwheels.com and see where that gets you. Hopefully he will replace your controller for you.
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