By treebeme - Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:04 pm
- Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:04 pm
#24286
With a lot of help from JParthum, this is a full schematic to accomplish having full H/L, F/R (low speed reverse), Brake, Brake Light, Reverse Light, Headlight and Taillight functionality all switched on and off via a single switch using the LBD-14 Scooter controller. It runs the motor power through heavy duty relays instead of through the stock switches for durability purposes as well as providing the means for a seperate brake pedal. The stock switches are still used to pass power to the relay coils and to turn on the reverse lights and reverse beeper.
As JParthum has pointed out before, this schematic has several advantages over some other setups.
•The Controller's native 'kill' feature is utilized - so not only does the braking Relay disconnect the motors from the Controller, the Controller itself also cuts power to the motors. So in the event that RY1 failed closed and braking ability were lost, the Brake Pedal would still stop power from reaching the motors, even if the throttle is also pressed.
•Even though this may seem like a lot of wiring, connectors can be purchased along with the controller (see Parts List below) to simplify many of the connections. Also, with the exception of the wiring between the batteries and Controller, and between the Controller and Relays/motors (which can typically be placed close together), all of the remaining wiring can be small gauge, and multi-strand cables like Ethernet (CAT5/CAT6) or telephone (CAT3) could be used to make this a cheap, but neat installation.
•Since the controller is the most sophisticated and sensitive component, it's more prone to failure. But, while it may not help with the expense or down-time waiting for a replacement to arrive, utilizing the modular connectors would at least remove frustration by greatly simplifying the process of replacing the controller.
These schematics would also work with other controllers with some modifications depending on the specific model. This setup could easily be used with a 36v controller by adding just a couple more resistors to drop voltage for the lights and relays. Since we are not sending the power to the motor through any of the stock switches you don't have to worry about burning out the shifter or brake (was throttle) switches. The relays in the parts list have been very reliable for me. They are rated to handle 25 amps at 28 volts (not the coil which is 12v) and have handled 36v in one of my vehicles with no problems so far.
As a word of warning, we are using the power leads for the pilot and brake lights to power the relays and lights. I would expect the lights to be LED's or something similar that do not draw a lot of power. I wouldn't suggest running incandescents or other bulbs with high amp draws off of the controller leads. If you did wan't to do something like that, I would use the pilot light to the coil of a seperate relay that would connect a 12v accessory battery to all of your high power drawing items.
The schematic and parts list are based off of what I am actually using in my running vehicles with some tweaks that JParthum came up with as we went back and forth getting the schematic going. If you use different relays than whats on the parts list you might have to use a different sized resistor to achieve the 12v signal needed by the relay coil. The lights listed are all expected to be 12v units so that when they are run in series they can handle the 24v power coming from the controller leads.
The only part that I am guessing on is the resistor size needed to drop the voltage to 12v for the reverse beeper. I am actually using this reverse beeper on a vehicle but I can't remember the resistor I used and it's taped up and hidden in a bottom of a vehicle right now. The 100 ohm resistor in the schematic would probably work for that beeper but I would try testing the ohms on the beeper with a meter first before trying it for real.
Unlike a stock PW, the brakes are off by default in this schematic. If you would like for the brakes to be applied while the Key Switch is in the OFF position (automatic 'parking brakes'), you can swap five wires - On Relay RY1, switch NO1 with NC1, and NO2 with NC2, then on the Brake Pedal, move the wire from the top pin (NO) to the bottom pin (NC). But be aware that this would also result in the coil on Relay RY1 drawing power (about .25 watts) whenever the Key Switch is ON, and the Brake Pedal is NOT pressed.
If you have trouble locating Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) Relays, two Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT/5-pin/Bosch style) Relays could be substituted for each DPDT Relay (6 SPDTs to replace the 3 DPDTs shown) - Assuming the SPDT Relays are also 12V, you could omit the resistors shown attached to the coils of RY1 and RY3, and wire the SPDT Relay coils in Series (as the LEDs are wired) in order to drop the Voltage they receive from 24V to 12V. Be aware that the set of two SPDT Relays in Series that replace RY2 would then need to be wired in Parallel (Pos to Pos/Neg to Neg, instead of in Series) with the set of two Relays in Series that replace RY3.
Parts list
1 - 12v Batteries (2-Pack) - http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-UPS-SLA-Replace ... 3f04529b29
1 - 24V Controller (Model LBD14) Yi-Yun Brand Controller - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101166
1 - Foot Pedal Throttle Cable (Hall Effect) - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101125
1 - 30 Amp DC Circuit Breaker - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101262
1 - 2 Wire Keyswitch - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101227
1 - 12v Pulse Buzzer - http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2102819
2 - 100 ohm 10W 5% Wirewound Resistor (2-Pack) - http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062293
3 – 12 VDC DPDT 25 AMP RELAY - http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?i ... e=electric
2 - 1.0 ohm 10W 10% Wirewound Resistor (2-Pack) – http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062290
1 - Battery / Motor Connector (2 - Pin) - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=102310
5 – 2 Pin Modular Connector - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=102300
1 - 3 Pin Modular Connector - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=102302
1 – INLINE Charging Port (3 Pin) - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101240
1 - 24 Volt INLINE Charger - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101130
I found these lights work well hiding behind the stock headlight lenses on a unibody Jeep.
12v LED for Headlights - http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... TE//1.html
These also might work behind the stock headlight and taillight lenses on unibody jeeps. I haven't used them yet but they should work. The ones I had used on my vehicles I got on clearance from US-1 Autoparts and I would have no idea where to find them on-line.
12v LED for Taillights/Brake Lights - http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... ITE/1.html
As JParthum has pointed out before, this schematic has several advantages over some other setups.
•The Controller's native 'kill' feature is utilized - so not only does the braking Relay disconnect the motors from the Controller, the Controller itself also cuts power to the motors. So in the event that RY1 failed closed and braking ability were lost, the Brake Pedal would still stop power from reaching the motors, even if the throttle is also pressed.
•Even though this may seem like a lot of wiring, connectors can be purchased along with the controller (see Parts List below) to simplify many of the connections. Also, with the exception of the wiring between the batteries and Controller, and between the Controller and Relays/motors (which can typically be placed close together), all of the remaining wiring can be small gauge, and multi-strand cables like Ethernet (CAT5/CAT6) or telephone (CAT3) could be used to make this a cheap, but neat installation.
•Since the controller is the most sophisticated and sensitive component, it's more prone to failure. But, while it may not help with the expense or down-time waiting for a replacement to arrive, utilizing the modular connectors would at least remove frustration by greatly simplifying the process of replacing the controller.
These schematics would also work with other controllers with some modifications depending on the specific model. This setup could easily be used with a 36v controller by adding just a couple more resistors to drop voltage for the lights and relays. Since we are not sending the power to the motor through any of the stock switches you don't have to worry about burning out the shifter or brake (was throttle) switches. The relays in the parts list have been very reliable for me. They are rated to handle 25 amps at 28 volts (not the coil which is 12v) and have handled 36v in one of my vehicles with no problems so far.
As a word of warning, we are using the power leads for the pilot and brake lights to power the relays and lights. I would expect the lights to be LED's or something similar that do not draw a lot of power. I wouldn't suggest running incandescents or other bulbs with high amp draws off of the controller leads. If you did wan't to do something like that, I would use the pilot light to the coil of a seperate relay that would connect a 12v accessory battery to all of your high power drawing items.
The schematic and parts list are based off of what I am actually using in my running vehicles with some tweaks that JParthum came up with as we went back and forth getting the schematic going. If you use different relays than whats on the parts list you might have to use a different sized resistor to achieve the 12v signal needed by the relay coil. The lights listed are all expected to be 12v units so that when they are run in series they can handle the 24v power coming from the controller leads.
The only part that I am guessing on is the resistor size needed to drop the voltage to 12v for the reverse beeper. I am actually using this reverse beeper on a vehicle but I can't remember the resistor I used and it's taped up and hidden in a bottom of a vehicle right now. The 100 ohm resistor in the schematic would probably work for that beeper but I would try testing the ohms on the beeper with a meter first before trying it for real.
Unlike a stock PW, the brakes are off by default in this schematic. If you would like for the brakes to be applied while the Key Switch is in the OFF position (automatic 'parking brakes'), you can swap five wires - On Relay RY1, switch NO1 with NC1, and NO2 with NC2, then on the Brake Pedal, move the wire from the top pin (NO) to the bottom pin (NC). But be aware that this would also result in the coil on Relay RY1 drawing power (about .25 watts) whenever the Key Switch is ON, and the Brake Pedal is NOT pressed.
If you have trouble locating Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) Relays, two Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT/5-pin/Bosch style) Relays could be substituted for each DPDT Relay (6 SPDTs to replace the 3 DPDTs shown) - Assuming the SPDT Relays are also 12V, you could omit the resistors shown attached to the coils of RY1 and RY3, and wire the SPDT Relay coils in Series (as the LEDs are wired) in order to drop the Voltage they receive from 24V to 12V. Be aware that the set of two SPDT Relays in Series that replace RY2 would then need to be wired in Parallel (Pos to Pos/Neg to Neg, instead of in Series) with the set of two Relays in Series that replace RY3.
Parts list
1 - 12v Batteries (2-Pack) - http://cgi.ebay.com/APC-UPS-SLA-Replace ... 3f04529b29
1 - 24V Controller (Model LBD14) Yi-Yun Brand Controller - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101166
1 - Foot Pedal Throttle Cable (Hall Effect) - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101125
1 - 30 Amp DC Circuit Breaker - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101262
1 - 2 Wire Keyswitch - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101227
1 - 12v Pulse Buzzer - http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2102819
2 - 100 ohm 10W 5% Wirewound Resistor (2-Pack) - http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062293
3 – 12 VDC DPDT 25 AMP RELAY - http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?i ... e=electric
2 - 1.0 ohm 10W 10% Wirewound Resistor (2-Pack) – http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062290
1 - Battery / Motor Connector (2 - Pin) - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=102310
5 – 2 Pin Modular Connector - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=102300
1 - 3 Pin Modular Connector - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=102302
1 – INLINE Charging Port (3 Pin) - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101240
1 - 24 Volt INLINE Charger - http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101130
I found these lights work well hiding behind the stock headlight lenses on a unibody Jeep.
12v LED for Headlights - http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... TE//1.html
These also might work behind the stock headlight and taillight lenses on unibody jeeps. I haven't used them yet but they should work. The ones I had used on my vehicles I got on clearance from US-1 Autoparts and I would have no idea where to find them on-line.
12v LED for Taillights/Brake Lights - http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... ITE/1.html
Last edited by treebeme on Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.