Gruber
HobbyMasters
M.L. Toys
KidsWheels
Gruber
HobbyMasters
M.L. Toys
KidsWheels
HobbyMasters M.L. Toys
Gruber
KidsWheels
vehicles with a circuit board controlling the motors
#48079
Hi guys,

I have been looking to upgrade my sons car for a little while now and have been doing some research on the options i have.

Unfortunately it's a cheap Chinese build BUT for the price i paid it's lasted the year and is still going with no real issues.

It's now time to give it some juice though.

I have already been in contact with the company i purchased it from and they are getting hold of another motor and gear box to allow me to convert it to 2WD, that in it's self will be a massive improvement.

My next task is to arrange the wiring to allow the RC controls, Sound system,Lights/effects and circuit board to stay on 6v while i step the motors up to 12v.

Im having a few issues locating 6v 5 pin relays at present though, Plan is to keep the 6v battery for everything bar the motors, and send the signal from the circuit board through a pair of relays and onto the motors.

Anyway i found your site after looking for inspiration on youtube, and im amazed at the extent of the mods that are being carried out on here.

The plan for the car eventually is to keep stepping up the voltage until something breaks then upgrade motors, boxes and wheels as and when they give up, im an electrical engineer by trade and currently specialise in Fire alarm systems so lucky to have more 12v batteries than i know what do do with at present...

If there is anyone with experience with these Chinese cars im all ears especially if they know of better gearboxes/motor combinations for them.

Thanks for your time


Nick
#48240
Yeah i looked into reducing voltage by building a small circuit board BUT it works out easier to source some relays and just power the motors with 12v leaving the rest of the car on 6v.

Can just leave the existing battery under the seat all hooked up to it's factory charging jack and top it up every month or so and fit a cradle in the back of the car over the rear wheels with a pair of relays and a 12Ah 12v battery.

If the 12Ah battery struggles then i can fit a larger one or start pairing battery's up.

Im currently waiting to hear back about the motor/box unit...
#48261
Been busy hunting down the illusive 6v changeover relays...

Found some BUT the price is killing me! they want £28.60 for 2 delivered !

May be cheaper to source them from the US at that price so im still on the hunt knowing that i can get them if i sell my right arm.

Im well impressed with the knowledge base on this site though, have been doing some reading and it's given me so many ideas, and has helped me make some future plans on sourcing upgrade parts.

I just hope my 6v motors are going to last for a few months, already have my eyes on a few motors from a glof cart :lol:
#48304
LOL

I have been warned by the wife that if the golf kart motors go on then my son is not using the car....

Its a project for a little later on (when he is old enough to be bored by a childs car), and as they wont cost me anything then they can sit in the loft till time is found to fit them, with the power they could deliver the battery bank would have to live over the front of the car or it would be doing wheel stands everywhere!

It would be an extensive overhaul though and would require the addition of a sub frame, just using the plastic body as a dress up part.
#48711
Thanks very much, that's exactly as im going to do mine :)

Great minds think alike it would seem.

Looks like Christmas has slowed the progress of the project, im still waiting for info on the second box/motor unit.

The Relays in the link are only available from US stock :(

I can buy them via the UK site BUT as they are US stock they want $25 for shipping !!
Last edited by VIDALBABBOON on Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#51003
Well im not having any luck sourcing another drive unit at the moment or a cheaper alternative to the 6v relays.

So have just bought the Relays from Farnell USA.

And im looking to try and match the drive unit from my car with another online somewhere, worst case i buy a pair to make sure they match.
#51336
Relays have arrived....

Got a 12v 12Ah battery in stock and ready to go along with in-line fuse holders and consumables.

Not had any joy with sourcing another drive unit BUT when i get the car stripped down tomorrow will take pictures of the current unit and dimensions to see if i can match it or replace it with a pair of 12v units from another car.

I may just go with the replace for a pair of 12v units, as should i want to upgrade again.... There should be no worries about stepping up to 24v.

Time to get busy now then ;)

Will be sure to take pictures so if anyone else from the UK or Europe finds the site they can save all the hassle i have gone through and use this thread for information and ideas.
#51387
Well it's all done and was as easy as expected :)

Bench (kitchen table) tested it and all is well.

Im about to let the lad take it out for a test drive and will also be taking a pair of wire cutters with me should anything go wrong lol

Guess i should put this in the project section now ? will upload all the pictures (25 in total) later have taken pics of all the stages in case anyone else wants to do a similar project in future.

Next job is to rewire the front and rear lights and turn signal lights so they are brighter, have plenty of bits in stock for this as my next job is to build a set of LED tail lights for my Nissan 240 :)
#51390
Well that didn't last long....

Catastrophic gearbox failure has occurred....

I was not paying attention and my boy decided to try and jump a curb along the side of the road, he hit it square on and kept his foot on the pedal. it's sheered all the teeth from the intermediate gear in the box.

Guess im going to be going twin 12v motor and box sooner than planned !!!

Gutted at the moment as he was loving it and it was really hauling buttocks.

Moral of the story don't mod the 6v Chinese cars on the stock box.

Have the box apart and took pictures too, anyone got a pair of 12v motor/box combos for sale ?
#51398
Right then here goes...

Parts required:

1 x 12v battery
1 x inline fuse holder
2 x 6v switching relays
cable
crimps

Car up on the table ready to be stripped out.

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Seat removed showing existing 6v battery and all the stock controls

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Rear Trunk section to be removed

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Rear trunk section removed (one screw centre rear top and 4 screws rear below) underneath trunk section (motor drive for fake speaker movement and led drivers for flashing lights)

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Inside the trunk (speaker mounted in bottom and motor drive unit on right with take off for rear lights)

Image

Trial fit of 12Ah battery

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Rear lights unplugged from motor

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Rear light loom de soldered from motor (to be re wired at later date)

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Motor loom cut ready for conversion to 12v

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Knocked up a battery tray with some aluminium

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Nice snug fit

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Relays mounted up and riveted to back wall

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Existing 6v +/- wires from PCB connected to pin 86 on relay (coil feed)

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Battery tray mounted

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Battery fitted in tray and secured with zip tie

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Negative wire installed from negative terminal on 6v battery beneath seat and connected to pin 85 on relay (coil ground)

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Positive connection made from 12v battery to in line fuse holder and from fuse holder to pin 87 on both relays

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Negative connection made from 12v battery to pin 87a on both relays

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12v Connections made for +/- output from relays to motor

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Loom all tidied up and secured

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All back together and ready to roll after table test was successful.

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#51400
Yup after a close encounter with a large street curb it was terminally damaged and i have no parts here that could fix it :(

Was going really well although difficult to steer due to the power coming from one wheel.

So can anyone identify this gearbox motor combo ?

OR

Can anyone sell me a pair of drive units and a pair of wheels to match them ?

Drive unit -

Image

Image

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Damage to secondary drive cog -

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The parts on the right are what's left of the drive cog !
Last edited by VIDALBABBOON on Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#51403
Well locating a drive unit that is compatible with my car is proving harder than expected !

After looking through pages and pages of results i have tracked down something that looks like it will fit although at te price it would be cheaper to buy a complete new car !

http://www.bigtoysusa.com/npl12voltmotorgearbox.aspx

And if it is the same what's to stop it shearing the gear again !

EDIT: Still looking and im now searching through this site as most of the results im finding on google are sending me here anyway lol

Info on Drive unit linked too above - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5839

Ebay link to UK based replacements - http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=1 ... m270.l1313
Last edited by VIDALBABBOON on Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#51405
Yeah it's very strange.

Im sure i could modify the wheels to accept something as long as the drive unit was cheap enough im willing to have a go.

Where would i find the #3 drives, im not used to the speak on here so bear with me i can find #3A #3B but none that are simply #3

Also what make cars are thy from PW ? if so i can search for PW parts on the net to find them.
#51406
3A and 3B was what I was refering to. They come in alot of power wheels from four wheelers to beetles to trucks. Most anything 6 volt and older will have 3A or 3B gearboxes in it. Heres the gearbox thread that may shed some light on it.
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=103
#51417
Yeah found that earlier, didn't spot the header though (Power Wheels #3 gearboxes)

Will get on it and source a pair of #3 drive units and modify them and the wheels to suit.

The gears in those look far stronger than what is in my heap of junk, will also do some load calculations and get a trip switch that will open circuit the drive line if he crashes again, this should protect the boxes in future and save me feeling like a failed father lol

My boy took it all in his stride as if he brakes anything dad always fixes it lol I took it as a low point though but will fix it and rise again lol

Thanks for your help.
#51473
Right trying to keep everything in one place so if anyone stumbles across this in future they don't have to search for info that i have already covered.

So link to the wanted thread i posted on here with selection info and best motor/box combination to use below.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=6522&p=51472#p51472

Im looking into the best combination at the moment on another part of this site, so will also include links to the threads that provide the best info later...

Ok so it would appear to keep the speed up i would be better to go with super 6 motors and the 3B gearbox, these seem to be faster than 12v motors running at 18v.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6310

So the parts required are

Pair of 3B gearboxes

http://mltoys.com/zencart/index.php?mai ... ucts_id=54

Pair of super six motors

http://mltoys.com/zencart/index.php?mai ... cts_id=563

More to come when these parts arrive and I attempt to modify the drive output to suit my wheels....

BUT

Im also looking to find a pair of wheels that will accept this drive and that could be fitted directly to my car, more on that to come also...
Last edited by VIDALBABBOON on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
#51506
How about a set of 3A gearboxes and corvette wheels? What is the diameter of the stock wheels?..and the distance from the body to the end of the axle (where the wheel and gb go)?


I'll measure my Vette and see if it will work for you.
#51510
I have already ordered a pair of 3B boxes and a pair of super 6 motors from ML Toys.

Will get these in stock and take it from there, there is plenty of room in the rear of the car for retrofitting so will look at the options once they arrive.

I can even relocate the rear axle if it comes to it and fab some custom arches should they be required.

Going to use the down time to replace all the lighting and turn signals to get it working as it should.
#51728
Im now having thoughts about gearbox protection to make them last as long as possible.

So im trying to research some form of budget soft start method and even a soft brake method !

I know i could use an RCSC or even an ESC but im looking for a cheap solution for use on my already modified 12v cart.

I have noticed the rewire option that will allow me to effectively 1/2 the voltage to the motors at the flick of a switch and this is looking like an option at present BUT it's not fool proof OR child proof :lol:

A simpler automatic option would be preferable ;)
#53378
Well im getting bored of waiting now, parcel left the USA ages ago and it's now in the less than capable hands of the UK postal service..

Getting impatient now but we have terrible weather anyway so the lad has not asked to go out in it :)
#53944
Yeah i must be on some sort of list lol

On the up side the weather is getting better so when my parts do arrive i can get the lad out in the car more often :)

Will check the tracking info again now as it goes....

Well great news it landed in Heathrow London Yesterday.

So now the Dam English have it lol
Last edited by VIDALBABBOON on Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#54074
Fantastic news :)

all my parts arrived this morning, massive thanks to hootienchyna from MLTOYS.

The boxes fit the body perfectly with no modification required whatsoever.

Im currently manufacturing some spigot's to adapt the drive to my wheels and the first one is almost complete....

All being well should have some progress pictures and a fully working 2 wheel drive car by this time tomorrow night.

Thanks to everyone for all the input so far :)
#54278
Well it's all ready for another test drive.

Initial thoughts are that running the two Super six motors and 3B boxes in series from a 12v source (effective 6v to each motor) it's as fast as the last motor box combo at 12v!

Done some lighting mods to it while it was off the road too, and have a few more to sort now as the mods show the standard stuff up.

Will get the pictures up ASAP but im having issues with my Phone at present and cant get them to download via Kies !
#54409
Well a few tweaks on it's first outing and it's now perfect.

My boy loves it but is having issues keeping his foot on the gas pedal, so im going to increase the contact range on the pedal to make it easier for him.

He even stopped at one point on a down hill stretch as it was going too fast !

No need to run the motors in full 12V yet then...
#58858
Just an update to say that all is well with this and it's still not been used on full 12v.

Had a slight issue with a wheel coming off but that's now sorted never to happen again..

Still need to find the time to modify the gas pedal as it's got a very small contact range and it's hard for my lad to keep his foot flat to the floor all the time he is in the car.
Just need to bring the contact to the top and then the whole travel of the pedal will engage the motors.
#60077
Hope to see the finished product and details (just incase it happens to my son's car) Your posts were very helpful and am planning to do the same to my son's car. The one i ordered for him came as a upgrade version. Bigger battery and twin motors (2wd). I'm going to have lots of fun modifying his car. :-) Will post pics & video when i'm done.
#66842
Hi i have read your thread in entirety!! I must say well done !!

Ok so I just went and bought the very same car :(

TBH the car has got really good looks! The speaker is quite good and the kids love it!! Problem is it really struggles on even the slightest incline. I have been searching the net, calling auto electricians lol and seem to be talking to brick walls most of the time. The way you modified yours, you seemed to now what you were doing. I DONT!!

I guess my first question is: Is there any way a complete novice with no electrical experience modify this??
If its possible is there a quick way??
How much did it end up costing you??
Can you supply details of where to source parts??

Ok lol l did see a video on utube about just adding another 6v batt in series, would this work??

Thanks and any help is greatly appreciated!!

Brendan
#67435
Hi Bree,

Do you have the very same car as mine ?

The one i have has a remote control and as a result is wired through a control box that is only rated to 6v.

Simply upping the voltage by buying another 6v battery and configuring the car to run 12v will more than likely result in failure of the control box.

To get round this issue i have installed the large 12v battery in the rear compartment and wired it via 2 6v relays directly to the motors.

The relays had to come via the United states as i could not find anything in the UK that was suitable. the major drawback of the modifications was the fact that the standard gearbox was simply not upto the job and it lasted about 10 minutes.

To get round this i ordered some parts from the traders on here (see the links above) and modified the wheels/drive units to suit.

Its not something you would want to be doing if you don't know your way around electrics or are not confident with DIY.

BUT saying that with the posts i have made and the wiring diagram i have also posted on here it's certainly possible to do it yourself given patience and time.
Parts list

2 x 6v coil relays £21.65 http://uk.farnell.com/durakool/dg85b-80 ... dp/1342950

1 x 12v battery £13 http://www.thesafetycentre.co.uk/store/ ... attery.php

1 x inline fuse holder £3 Halfords

cable and crimps £5 halfords

All the consumable parts will also be available at your auto electricians.

The custom bits like crimping the relays and making the batery tray are cheap jobs to do they just need a bit of thought.


Im currently in the process of modifying the gas pedal on mine as it's finally annoyed me enough to get it sorted, will have that done over the weekend :)
Last edited by VIDALBABBOON on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
#70114
Quick update,

Forgot to add that the pedal modification went well and it's now far easier to keep the power down.

Had a few setbacks with my own car after a little argument with a corner marker on track a little while ago so my lad has been assisting me with repairing that recently..
Attachments
rocco helping.jpg
#76849
Hi,
I also have 1of these, and got disappointed when my kid got a lil older and it struggled with inclines.
ok to keep it brief :)
being experimental ill probably try the direct 12v plug in and expecting that if the board fries........
i have a 24v 120w scooter lying around.....
i guess i either disect it and use all the insides for the car.. or..
is it possible to put 1 of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130621964041? ... 1423.l2649
with 1 of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24-Volt-350-W ... 2a1bece100.

im totally new to this kinda thing, but seen some vids and had to pull it outta the shed :)

advice on this kinda vehicle welcome :)
#77319
If you are looking to run the 24v motor and no longer need the radio controller then gut the car and re wire it, but leave the lighting and trick bits intact to save hassle.

The issue you have with the drive motor you have linked to is getting the drive to the wheels.

You would also need to find a way of adapting the pedal to have throttle control, there are threads on that in the BPRO, ESCs section.

You are giving me ideas now though, that 24v motor and controller is very cheap lol
#79963
What a great thread! First off, thank you for posting all of this. It's very helpful.


I have a similar car, Lamborghini Murcielago Lp 670-4 SV. It's made in china. But no remote control, which I thought would have been a good option.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 01907D8123

Anyways, I had the same struggle as you. There's a bit of a hill here, + my 25 lb daughter would try to go up it but just get one wheel to spin. So I wanted 2WD. After quite some time + much more searching, I found a company that had one sitting around. They were located in Texas, I in Washington (state) so I ordered it. Unfortunately, it didn't come with an adapter for it to fit directly to the Lambo.
Gearbox complete w motor + adapter:
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Gearbox with adapter off (you can see it on the ground)
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So what I ended up doing was taking the wheel spacer out from the dead wheel, cutting it in half and using it to space the gear box. It works well, but the motor does rotate about an inch total. I still need to make a proper adapter for it, but that won't be too hard. Just some scrap and a few large bolts.

Then the other day she really wanted to drive. So I got the Lambo out, but the battery was dead. What a good excuse to go for some more power. We went to the battery store + ended up getting a12V 10amp/hr. The stock battery was 6V 4amp/hr. This made such a huge difference! It's gone from a measly old man walk, to a brisk walk.

After about 30 mins of driving around in circles, the motors + plastic heat sinks on them were a bit warm. Also, either they were so warm they stopped working, or the battery was just dead. Either way, I charged the battery up + it works again.

My next mods -
I bought some $3 CREE flashlights from Woot.com They're nice + bright. I was going to use them on my RX-7, but I think it would be nice to put in the headlights of the Lambo.
I also found on here someone that basically drilled through the gears + gear box, then put shoulder bolts through it to strengthen the box. This is on my list.
Then I would like to get some better motors as well. I'm sure with the 12V they are going to burn out shortly, so it's on the list. Also, more power isn't really bad, right?
The steering is garbage. This one will be next. It has a VERY large turn radius. I would like to get it to turn around in at least one lane, not one and a half.


One other idea I had (you may be able to help with this since you're an electrical engineer) is since I upped the voltage, starts and stops are very hard on the car, tires, etc. They spin a bit at start and will lock up, bouncing the car at a stop. If I put a capacitor on the + line of both motors, will it help with this problem? My understanding is that they hold voltage. So my thinking is that when you start, it will fill the capacitor up w voltage + trickle to the motors making it start slower then go full speed. Then when you stop it will basically do the opposite + have the wheels slow down instead of just shutting off. Is this correct?

Great thread! Thanks for being so thorough with everything :)
#80078
Im just Glad i have been able to give something back to the site. The knowledge i have gained from here has been extremely helpful.

The super 6 motors im now using in series are far better than the stock motor connected in parallel from a 12v source.

So much so i have not bothered to install the boost button to switch the motors from Series to parallel.

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