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KidsWheels
Need new motors? Grind a gearbox? Adding teeth to a pinion?
By sethro
#127036
This is such a great forum!! Going to keep a living thread here as I progress through the 18v (or 24v) upgrade project.

From the research I've done so far, appears the stock 12v motors are in the 500 series. I haven't made up my mind if I want to go with 700+ series motors and hack the gearbox or pursue purchasing the Kershaw Rev 650s. Since there are no specs on the 650s, a bit nervous to attempt going any further especially if the performance isn't worth the buck. However, they will fit the Gearbox. Also will do a little more searching for other 650 series motors but I'm completely open to suggestions!
[09/28], Kershaw recommended not using these motors as the BPRO stress would burn them out quickly. Was advised to look at other 650 series motors via Surplus vendors.

The goal is to make this older Gator take the hills without stalling out. I've burned up these motors sending 24v but they still didn't have the torque to properly make the hills as hoped. We got a few hours of play time though so the experiment was fun none-the-less. If required, I will research and do the whole nine yards (controller boards, foot throttle, wiring, etc). I didn't find any specifications on the stock motors that come with Peg Perego 12v BPROs. Those details are below per the Peg service department.

I am still not 100% certain if the pinion can be slightly different or not (ie. 11T/12T vs the 10T). [10/11], research indicates pinion tooth count is variable and can be applied LOGICALLY to any spur gear of same "pitch" regardless of tooth count. Less pinion teeth, more spur teeth = torque. Beware that meshing different teeth count via the pinion gear does not favor the modder.

Peg Perego Part#: SAGI9993 10Tooth
Johnson Electric
HC683XLLG/FS/45070/5E1(CCW)

3.2mm Shaft, 10T Pinion Gear

Image

At No Load
Speed : 13444 Rpm
Current: 1.139 Amp
At stall (Extrapolated)
Torque : 499.680 m-Nm
Current: 64.576 Amp
At maximum efficiency
Efficiency : 70.77 %
Torque : 58.589 m-Nm
Speed : 11868 Rpm
Current : 8.578 Amp
Output : 72.844 Watts

At maximum power
Torque : 249.840 m-Nm
Speed : 6722 Rpm
Current : 32.858 Amp
Output : 175.944 Watts
Characteristics
Torque Constant : 7.877 m-Nm/Amp
E.M.F Constant : 7.877 mV/rad/sec
Dy. Resistance : 0.186 Ohms
Motor Regulation: 26.906 Rpm/m-Nm

At Torque Level:
Torque: 60.000 m-Nm
Speed: 11830 Rpm
Current: 8.757 Amp
Efficiency: 70.77 %
Output: 74.360 Watts
Last edited by sethro on Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:39 pm, edited 9 times in total.
By sethro
#127200
I think 80 hours of my life are gone researching DC motor specifications and user comments. Finding a 650 series motor is exhaustive. The ones that are found are weak or without specification. I thought on the 550 style for a bit but really looking for good torque out of this project. Secondly, 10T 32P (with 5mm bore) pinions are almost as hard to find as 650 motors. There are forums where guys have drilled out the bore to the required size.

Anyway, I am really about to the pull trigger on Dewalt 820 motors. The Traxxas Titans 775's caught my attention for a bit but if I am going big, then let's get dirty. Until my OCD allows me to make the most intelligent choice, below is my Onedrive album to show what I'm tinkering with.

The spur gear seen right above the motor below is 15 T/75 T (outer), @7.5:1 inner ratio via 10T pinion gear.

Gear Ratio Calculator (rough idea at the very least): http://www.rcracing.com/Gear_Ratio_Program_1100.cfm
Awesome notes on a few different motors: http://forum.modifiedpowerwheels.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7832
Project Album: https://onedrive.live.com/embed?cid=66918358816FEE54&resid=66918358816FEE54%2147863&authkey=AK3wj1hcYtVUrC8

IMG_0523.JPG
Last edited by sethro on Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.
User avatar
By jonesee
#127201
Personally if all you are after is more torque just use the 24 volt rzr 775 motors and gearboxes. If you still want more just throw 36 volts at the peg perego 350 watt motors. I have had really good luck with this setup on 36 volts and the bigger peg gearboxes.
http://forum.modifiedpowerwheels.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12085
By sethro
#127422
@jonesee, thank you for the information man!! You have a very cool Gator mod and really love the tandem rear end. I decided to go with the gearboxes you use but throwing 24v at 775 Banebots. I gave serious thought to the 36 volts though. :)

There is a seller on E-Bay who is advertising a 24v Power Wheel conversion kit for $119.99. Appears he has sold many kits thus far which is just about par with the various controller setups seen on this Forum. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Wheels-ESC-Conversion-Kit-Upgrade-24-Volts-Pedal-Controller-Relays-/131235799993?pt=Electronic_Battery_Windup_Toys_US&hash=item1e8e4363b9

My parts list below is a bit pricey (burned an Amazon gift card on half this list) but should make for a very fun mod. [10/19], parts have been ordered.

Code: Select allName               Qty  Price    Total    Part Name (Part#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Motor               2   $17.50   $35.00   Banebot RS775 Motor - 18V (M7-RS775-18)
Pinion              2   $12.99   $25.98   Hot Racing NSG213L Long 13T Steel 32P Pinion Gear 5mm
Gearbox Spacers     2   $3.00    $6.00    Peg Perego - Spacer for 24 Volt (MMST0065)
Gearbox             2   $31.00   $62.00   Peg Perego - Gearbox Assembly (24 Volt) (SAGI8971XWTN)
Controller          1   $39.00   $39.00   24 Volt Controller with Reverse (Model: YK48-2) (CTL-101185)
Half Effect Pedal   1   $19.99   $19.99   Metal Foot Pedal Throttle (Hall Effect) (THR-101124)
Relay               3   $10.37   $31.11   DC 24V Coil 30A 250V AC General Power Relay 8 Pin DPDT (JQX-30F)
Circuit Breaker     1   $4.15    $4.15    30 Amp 1/4" Quick Connect Push Button Circuit Breaker with Boot (70575)
Resistor            2   $2.49    $4.98    1.0 ohm 10W 10% Wirewound Resistor (2-Pack) (271-131)
Resistor            2   $2.49    $4.98    100 Ohm 10W 10% Wirewound Resistor (2-Pack) (271-135)
Power & Light SW    2   $0.98    $1.96    SPST On-Off Mini Rocker (7500002)
Power Indicator     1   $1.98    $1.98    LED Indicator Pigtail Lights (73581)
Fwd/Rev Switch      1   $5.10    $5.10    DPDT Window Momentary Switch (73553DL)
Fwd Indicator       1   $1.98    $1.98    LED Indicator Pigtail Lights (73483)
Rev Indicator       1   $4.02    $4.02    LED Indicator Pigtail Lights (73382)
Battery             2   $43.99   $87.98   12V 22AH Replacement Battery (ML22-12)
Battery Charger     1   $7.99    $7.99    24V 2A Charger (CHG-101130)
Battery Plug        1   $5.50    $5.50    INLINE Charging Port (3 Pin) (CHG-101240)
Battery Cap         1   $1.00    $1.00    INLINE Charging Port Cover (CHG-101242)
Connector           1   $1.50    $1.50    Battery / Motor Connector (2 - Pin) (CON-102310)
Connector           5   $1.50    $7.50    2 Pin Modular Connector (CON-102300)
Connector           1   $1.50    $1.50    3 Pin Modular Connector (CON-102302)
Head Lamps          1   $13.45   $13.45   2 x 9 LED Round Daytime Running Driving Light DRL Car Fog Lamp (N/A)
Stop/Tail Lamps     1   $18.99   $18.99   2 NEW Red LED 4" Round Stop Turn Tail LIGHT (2 KL-25108RK)
Reverse Lamps       1   $6.95    $6.95    11/16" White Clear Jammy Bullet Light 1 LED Waterproof (J-5-WC)
Running Lamps       2   $5.88    $11.76   LED-Light-Super-Bright-Amber-Oval-1x2-5 (J-515-A)

Last edited by sethro on Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
By sethro
#128052
The pinion started to "form" the teeth a bit too far to sync up with the stub gear correctly. In addition to the spacer that comes with the Peg Perego 24v RZR Gearboxes, I added two plastic washers. I went with plastic so I could dremel some breathers easily. This also required longer M4 bolts as well to fasten the motor. This worked really well!!

IMG_0072.jpg
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By sethro
#128054
I incorporated some of Jonesee's ideas with the gearboxes. My dremel skills are still amateur but thankfully it's mostly hidden behind the wheels. The new gearboxes are somewhat wider than the stock ones so will need to figure out how to stiffly position the new GB's appropriately. The rear axel is not long enough if you use the OEM white gearbox axel spacers. I will probably hit those with a jig saw to shave off about a half inch or so.

IMG_0073.jpg
IMG_0073.jpg (101.22 KiB) Viewed 5975 times
By sethro
#128057
Thought it would be kinda cool to rig a somewhat realistic console for the kiddos. On the left side of the console I threw on a red LED pilot light, a simple rocker switch for on/off, and another simple rocker switch for the headlights/running lights/tail lights. On the right side of the console I put in a forward green LED light and a reverse amber blinking light. Beneath those I installed a fwd/rev rocket switch.

Also put on a set of LED headlights, two LED running lights, LED reverse light, and a set of LED S/T/T lights on the rear. The brake lights are somewhat excessive but they did barely fit. HA HA HA

Picture Album

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IMG_0049.jpg
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Last edited by sethro on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By sethro
#128613
Progress has slowed as I overcome the lack of confidence with wiring. I did want to post a diagram of the power relays which has the pinout labeled for implementing Jpartham's wiring scheme.

Power Relay Diagram.jpg


I started with wiring the 1 OHM resistors in parallel (the hideous looking thing with orange electrical tape). Learned that by wiring in "parallel", you get half the total resistance vs "series" which yields the sum of all 3 resistors. There is always a high chance this brier ain't reading the wiring scheme mentioned above correctly. :)

Capture.JPG
Last edited by sethro on Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By ssohin
#146903
Does anyone know the acceleration of this motor? I am working on a modelling project and need the information for the same. Thank you for your help in advance.
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