Gruber
HobbyMasters
M.L. Toys
KidsWheels
Gruber
HobbyMasters
M.L. Toys
KidsWheels
HobbyMasters M.L. Toys
Gruber
KidsWheels
Anything that doesn't fit somewhere else & general forum updates
User avatar
By Z06Corey
#149305
Hi everyone. I've been reading and lurking the forums for a while. They have helped me a number of times with things I wanted to do to various power wheels. I finally signed up because I am having issues with son's Hurricane that I can't seem to diagnose. He stripped the white plastic spines that interlock with the wheels so I decided to buy a stage 1 upgrade for him (along with a new rim since the inside hub was torn up from the white plastic spines hopping in the wheel). That's where the troubles began. After hooking up the new motors the battery (grey top) protection would trip, quicker in the grass but even on the street after a few minutes of use. I bought an aftermarket battery (12V) with a 40amp fuse. It continues to pop the fuse. I replaced the shifter and gas pedal in hopes that the new connections would help. Finally I went back to look at the motors/rear drivetrain and I noticed that the outside of the wheel hub is now contacting the plastic casing and wearing into the hub. I replaced the rear axle as a precaution but no change - still seems to be rubbing, and the fuse keeps popping. I'm thinking the extra resistance is causing my fuse issue? We're a few months into summer now and my 5 year (about 40 pounds for reference) is very disappointed, I would love to get it back on the road again. Attached are pictures which may help. Thank you!

Pictures 1&2 are the old/new assemblies
Picture 3 Notice the rubbing on the top of the case (the jeep is upside down)
Picture 4 Notice the outside of the hub being worn away (note this is not with significant use and just begun with the new motor swap)
Picture 5 new motor
Picture 6 old motor (opposite side)
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User avatar
By Z06Corey
#149307
No luck there - read/considered the info there. I bought the stage 1 upgrade from you (ML Toys), so I did pursue the site for additional information. Interesting thought on the frame. I did notice a fair amount of wear on the frame where the axle goes through. Seems strange to have just triggered/occurred at the same time of the motor swap. He's barely used it since the swap. Is it possible the new assemblies don't line up exactly the same as the stock ones? I noticed a few spots that are different where the new setup is not as supported.
User avatar
By wired
#149310
Note: this only applies if you replaced the gearboxes with the same pinion tooth as the originals (aka 16t gearbox with 16t gearbox).
-If you think the gearbox housing are different/causing the problem (and from the pics they do look slightly different) you could swap all the internal gears and motor and use the original housings.
User avatar
By Hammer-fm
#149311
Looks like the old ones were #7 gearboxes and the replacements are 7R.

I pulled apart my older Jeep Hurricane (purchased 2nd hand, still had original #7 13T gearboxes in it). It also has wear in that area -- it's visible and can be felt by hand. Yours looks like it may be slightly wider, but that could just be the zoom too.
It doesn't seem very likely to me that it's the main cause of the fuse blowing. If I were burning an extra 200-300W (15-20A) of heat on that part of the wheel, I expect it would wear very quickly. It also likely wouldn't move at all in 1st and reverse (series, where the motors are only getting ~6V each).

So that leaves either:

(A) The fuse you got is a fast-blow style instead of a slow-blow style, or is not meeting specifications
(B) The motors just pull too much current. (I don't have any specs on those). Are you running 16T now?
(C) You have a very substantial different drag/binding problem somewhere.

IF you have a current meter that can handle it, it would be instructive to find out how much it is pulling while the wheels are off the ground.

In reality, you'd want three measurements:
(A) Motor by itself (not in the gearbox)
(B) Motor installed in the gearbox, but gearbox not installed (or no wheel installed)
(C) Full installation

I would expect B to be 15-30% more current than A based on measurements I've done. C should basically be 2x since there are two gearboxes, but once it's up to speed the constant current shouldn't really be affected by the wheel being attached.

Stock motors pull about 1.1-1.2A at 12V when run standalone. The Jameco/Nichibio 7013F 775-size ones that I recommend to people use about 2.2A at 12V at the same speed -- and would expect 3.3A at 18V. Installed in a gearbox, in a car, at 18V (really 36V, but two in series in each gearbox), the whole car pulls about 7.5-8A, so about 20% over.
User avatar
By M.L.Toys
#149315
The rub your experiencing is from either a bent axle and/or damage to the frame where the axle slides though. It takes only the slightest bend to an axle to cause the rub. The increased friction/drag in your drivetrain causes an increased amp draw from the motors which can pop fuses.
User avatar
By dlgg7
#149316
You did say in your first post you replaced the axle, before installing after you pulled the original one, did you align them together to see if there was a bend? I would think that if the frame was "miss-aligned", you would be able to sight down through the frame for where something is off, wouldn't you? If the axle was bent, it would have to be outside of the drive on the gearbox, the gearbox would shift around as the axle was spinning if the bend was before the gearbox. Does this rub on the wheels hub on either wheel? Alignment should be able to be seen, or so have I always found. I've pulled "junk" ones from alleys that I couldn't believe how bright and smooth a little cleaning and taking apart and TLC during re-assembling has given the grandkids "new" ride-ons, now close to 20! (and we only have a 3 & 5 yr old raising them!) Good Luck!
User avatar
By wired
#149317
Are the new gearboxes the same ratio as the original? Are they 13t, 15t or 16t? Hammer has extremely valid points about the motors.
User avatar
By Z06Corey
#149338
So I spent a few hours monkeying around with the Jeep again today. The axle is not bent, it is straight. From what I can tell with current readings, the draw is about 1.1amps once running (initially it is more until its running, as expected). I did not separate the motor from the gearbox, but did test with the wheels off and with the wheels on. Once running, around 1.1-1.3 amps (although I was testing off one motor). Maybe I am not testing appropriately?

At one point during the test, on high, only one tire was spinning (high only, both would spin on low). So that led me back to the shifter which I took apart and looked it - basically still brand new, barely any grit/dirt/etc. Finally, I took the seats out and plugged the multimeter into the shifter, then took it for a drive. Once running, was around 1.3 amps (with me in the car, which leads me to believe that I may not be testing correctly). As I got into the grass after about 10 seconds the car started to slow and then stopped. I stopped testing with the aftermarket battery and 40amp blade fuse because I was blowing through them. I went back to the stock battery (new last year and well maintained over winter/storage) which has the built in reset-able fuse. Before the new motors my son and daughter could go through the grass all day long with no issues.

Based on the comments above, and what I saw thus far, I think my initial impression of binding may not be accurate.
User avatar
By Hammer-fm
#149340
Hmm... The no-load #s sound good for one motor (though again I don't have specs on the MLToys motors, I actually would have expected a bit more assuming they're higher speed). However, the 1.3A with you driving part doesn't sound like a correct reading. Maybe downhill, but on level ground I'd expect an adult's weight to require quite a bit more juice.

The "one-wheel spinning in high gear" sounds problematic -- but unsure what to say there since you have a brand-new shifter in there.
User avatar
By dlgg7
#149344
With no-load, I'd be ck'ing voltage to the motor not runnning? Can't grip you testing driving it yourself, I'd think this would blow a fuse pretty fast itself! I've took our kids down to the park and in grass going up a small rise, (and there's ALWAYS other little kids that run to them and jump in adding more weight!) I keep telling the kids that they'll blow the fuse, which they do! I run 18AH batteries and they ride abt. 1 & 1/2 hrs till their died down. Ck you voltage from the sw on the shifter in high, should have 12v to both motors.
User avatar
By Z06Corey
#149387
I'm a small guy at 130 lb so it's not too bad but still more than should be in the car I'm sure. I was going to ask where / what the best location is to tap into in order to check folded and draw? Is it at the shifter?
User avatar
By Hammer-fm
#149392
Since you're debugging a fuse blowing issue, your best measurement location will basically be at the fuse ("inline" with it). The ammeter could go between the battery and the fuse, for instance, or between the fuse and the regular vehicle connection. I don't know what your ammeter is rated for -- I basically use one of the 100V/0-100A digital displays (this one) for this purpose, and my 10A actual-calibrated-HP DMM for checking no-load conditions. The Mustang has that combo volt/ammeter installed permanently and it's a bit entertaining to see how much it pulls in various conditions (max I've seen is 2100 watts pulled from the battery, with me riding it uphill at ~half speed, full throttle..), but also useful for debugging.
User avatar
By Blaint
#149488
thanks for the link and that's everyone for your answers! i appreciate it a lot as i was searching for quite similar answers but... can i ask you some questions in case i will have any? thanks a lot!
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